Providing you will find their http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Restore_Magicka#Alchemy_Ingredients, which isn't easy at the start of the game. I'd go with The Lady for the high personality and regenerating magicka whatsoever, because it's toughest to exist in the world at start. Yes, The Atronach is superior later on, but later on it's easy anyway, so...

I don't say anything on the role playing aspect though, since this guy is half-and-half a mage and a stealth character anyway. Besides, how can you roleplay with your birthsign? Do the birthsigns affect so much to the choice of profession that the TES characters are basically at their mercy? I'd like to think they choose what they like, without caring that much about their birth powers. Of course these powers might influence them towards certain professions, but I think the choice is ultimately the character's, not sign's. Therefore, it's all the same for the narrator (player) to choose any sign - preferably the best fitting - and it's not that much role playing, IMO. It's more a 'coincidence' in the game level. I'm a Cancer in real life and... so what? I'd take pretty much the same attitude if I was a Morrowinder.

You know, that is a good question!

Pluto is right in the sense that from an RP perspective The Lady is probably better. However, if signs are determined in Morrowind by when one is born, the recipient doesn't really get to choose that. So any class could, in theory, have any sign.

And The Atronach *is* one of my favorite signs. In Oblivion, where the penalty for being Atronach is more severe, the character with which I played through the entire game was an Altmer with Atronach (who did all guilds/quests 'cause he awesome like that and he could, and he did it with a starting build not unlike what I am describing in this discussino). And I *do* anticipate trying to do the Mages Guild with this character (in part because that is one of the few guilds with which the Thieves seem to get along), it wouldn't be a bad idea to have Atronach as the sign. I agree ... short-term The Lady is better, long-term The Atronach is better (and with enough gold/training would allow my Bosmer to be a respectable mage if he so chose).

And I am thinking about how you played your Alchemist character, too. Since my guy is thief-ish, hanging out in the cities and training up Alchemy first thing (and getting some good attribute bonuses along the way) might be a good way to start. As a Bosmer I should start with Alchemy of 40, so that is only six levels. And leveling up without leveling up weapon skills is not as "bad" in Morrowind as it would have been in Oblivion. So it would be a reasonable strategy, particularly for my first character.

You said this much better than I ... !

:clap:

I'd like to venture ever deeper into layers and worlds with the methods of comparative literature... Not. This is quite enough, thank you. :I

So, have you decided whether you're born under The Lady or The Atronach? In any case, once you get the game, would you please post your final character here though? After all this we're dying to see it!

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1115214-cant-decide-on-a-class/page__hl__speechcraft+hlaalu

I find the build described below, by "Scarie" from the forum discussion linked above, to be remarkably similar to my own. Rearrange majors and minors, swap out Athletics for Illusion, and there you have it. In some ways I think it is *better* than mine. If I weren't so darned interested in including Spears in my build (which I didn't get to play with in Oblivion), I would do it. Including Heavy Armor instead of Light and Block instead of Spears clearly has some benefits (particularly since a Bosmer/Stealth will start with Light Armor skill of 20 as a *miscellaneous* skill). Still might try this on a second character if I want to complete the Fighters Guild quests.

Without further ado ...(by "Scarie")..........................................................................................................

Personally I don't do quests for the rewards. I do quest because that's just what your supposed to do in morrowind right? In fact I think most quest rewards svck compared to what you can get on your own. So here's what you could do. Make a character Like this:

Race:
Imperial or Dunmer (both offer race bonuses but Dunmer may be better for realism)

Sign:
The Lady (a favorite of mine)

Specialization:
Combat (adds bonuses to all of your combat skills as well as armorer and athletics. If you prefer you can also get some use out of stealth.)

Favorite attributes:
Strength
Agility or Endurance (Do you prefer higher health or better dodging and hit rate?)

Majors:
Long Blade (Legion, Redoran)
Block (Legion)
Medium armor (Redoran)
Sneak (Thieves Guild, Hlaalu)
Security (Thieves Guild, Hlaalu)

Minors:
Armorer (Redoran)
Marksman (Thieves Guild, Hlaalu)
Athletics (Legion, Redoran)
Mercantile/Speechcraft (Hlaalu)
Alchemy ('cause it rocks)

This character will do well in both the legion and the thieves guild and either house Redoran or Hlaalu (because you can only join one.)
This is just my opinion. Make of it what you will.

Not yet. :facepalm:

I have been surprised and impressed by the amount of participation in this discussion, particularly since the game was originally released nearly a decade ago!

I ordered two used copies of Morrowind from different sellers via Amazon (that way they can race to see which one gets played first :celebration: ). I also ordered a used Xbox, so I can decide if I want to play on that or 360. I believe all have been shipped, and will most likely arrive tomorrow or Thursday (I am guessing/hoping). However, if a disc arrives before the Xbox, I am going to play on the 360 (at least my first character). :drool:

Post my custom character build I will, the sooner the better as far as I am concerned. Jeepers, from watching "Let's Play" videos on YouTube I have learned that I not only have to choose my custom class, I have to *name* it. Decision, decisions ...

Don't fret, my brother. In the end, it won't really matter. In 3-4 months time, this character will be a little too seasoned, a little too uber.... and you'll yearn for the exciting days of gaining those critical first few levels, and you'll make a 2nd character just for giggles and grins. Then a 3rd, then a 4th... then a 17th... All will be unique and awesome. Who knows if you'll even boot up TES V. I've never even played Oblivion....

[edit: spelling]

When I play RPGs, I tend to do just a few playthroughs very thoroughly. It took me one or two attempts to create a character I liked, and I took that one through all quests (including DLC), and then stopped. With Fallout 3 I played one character through the entire game, including all four DLC. With Fallout New Vegas I have played through vanilla once, and have started one more playthrough that will include all current and future DLC (Fallout 3 had four DLC, so I expect there are three more to come with Fallout New Vegas).

That is why I have worked so hard to determine what will be the "right" character for me for this playthrough. I can see myself playing no more than three different characters, one for Thieves Guild/House Hlaalu, one for Fighters Guild/House Redoran, and perhaps a separate one for House Telvanni/Mages Guild (though I suspect all characters will attempt Mages Guild). Two substantial playthroughs will probably be enough to get me to November, when Skyrim is released. Depending on how thorough, particularly with both Tribunal and Bloodmoon, it might only take one playthrough.

I will *definitely* be booting up TES:V when it arrives. :celebration: With a little luck, *spears* will return (still not confirmed nor denied). Several very neat features have already been announced, including dual wielding, much more damaging archery, and deadly sneak dagger attacks. Very appealing to a guy who seems to default to stealthy character builds.

So ... thnking about The Atronach vs. The Lady. Does anyone know how easy it is to get into the Telvanni Vault when one isn't part of that house?

There are two items in the game with CE Spell Absorption. The first is obtainable by the end of the Mages Guild quests -- the Necromancer's Amulet with 25% Spell Absorption. The second item is Greed, a spear found in the Telvanni Vault with 20% CE Spell Absorption. However, I would only want to join House Telvanni with a "magic" character, not a "stealth" or "combat" character.

Clearly I would want/need to take an Atronach character of any orientation through the Mages Guild, and with enough money for training that should be do-able. However, would I be able to get Greed with a stealth or combat character??

Can you get into the Telvanni Vault?... heck yeah, you can! Just bust out some Open-100 spells or Master lockpicks. Make sure the Ordinator isn't watching.... In fact, I don't know of any in-game approval you'll ever get to enter ANY house's vault. I'd bet $5 that even as the grand-poo-bah of any of the 3 houses, picking the lock to that house's vault in front of a NPC will get you a bounty.

It does. :glare: There is no approval to enter the vaults. Storytelling-wise, the vaults could be, like, very protected banks with no-one except the staff members having access to those, not even the champions of the house. Come to think of it, IIRC, there's normally just one Ordinator placed inside the very core of the vaults. Think what chances he has to loot the place.

One of my last things to do as... myself (Archmagister Nelacayne of The Great House Telvanni) was to get anything valuable/unique from every vault. So, I did these three all different way. Hlaalu, I guess, the one with most Ordinators, I entered visibly. The Ordinators were actually able to knock me down many times, and they actually bashed me to the verge of death! Finally I managed to get into the vault though, never killing any Ordinator (them just pounding me all the time), so no bounty other than from resisting arrests. Guess what I did then? I Marked. Then went to Thieves Guild to remove the bounty and Recalled me back into the vault. The rest is history...

With Redoran, I sneaked in, and did it so that the Ordinators couldn't notice me at all, with a help of someenchanted items (without whom I would be nothing... but I denie such claims to the end!). Then opened every chest and whatever in the same manner. They don't even know someone visited there!

From my own house Telvanni I didn't steal anything, but noticed that a thief shouldn't go through the first door at all... ( I'm actually there just now and I don't get it... BOTH doors lead to the same *chamber*, but once you get out of there using the only door... you end up in the vault. It's either an error in game design or just some pervert Telvanni magic. ) I'm actually thinking Marking this place and using it as my additional relics warehouse. I could sell something to Mournhold museum as well, but I don't like them having a bigger collection than I... I could always steal the sold items back afterwords though... Hmm...

Haha, not that you probably need the money, though!

I have too much time to think about the game since I am not able to *play* it quite yet. Last night I pretty easily created magic and combat builds.

Combat "Shadow Ranger"
The Lady
Strength + Agility
Majors: Marksman, Sneak, Security, Long Blade, Alchemy
Minors: Armorer, Heavy Armor, Block, Acrobatics, Speechcraft

Magic "Stealth Mage"
The Atronach
Intelligence + Willpower
Majors: Marksman, Sneak, Alchemy, Illusion, Conjuration
MInors: Acrobatics, Light Armor, Short Blade, Mysticism, Alteration

The magic build helped me see that I really want to play a stealth/magic character. The question then becomes: should I major/minor in magic, or should I train magic with wealth?
The latter seems easier than the former, particularly since a stealth + alchemy character should be able to make a *lot* of money in the world of Morrowind. Enough to pay for magic training. Lots of it. And the training I would want, particularly in Alteration, Mysticism and Conjuration, is relatively easy to obtain.

Because I want to play with magic, I think I will choose Atronach. Which will not be as painful for a character who also has non-magic means of accomplishing most tasks.

Bosmer
Stealth "Night Hawk"
The Atronach
Agility + Luck
Majors: Marksman, Sneak, Security, Illusion, Alchemy
Minors: Armorer, Spear, Short Blade, Light Armor, Speechcraft
Important Miscellaneous Skills: Acrobatics, Block, Athletics, Mercantile, Conjuration, Alteration, Mysticism (--all will be trained extensively--)
Heavy Armor and Medium Armor will also be trained to obtain Endurance bonuses

He will start with the Thieves Guild, House Hlaalu, and Morag Tong quests to build experience and gather wealth using the natural abilities provided by his race. He will also join and eventually finish the Mages Guild, using his wealth to train the magical ability gifted to him by the month of his birth. I understand one way to complete both Thieves and Fighters Guilds is to complete the Thieves Guild quests first, and then do the Fighters Guild, so I will try that and see if it works. By then he should have decent combat skills, also; the world will be his oyster and Tribunal and Bloodmoon await.

It is beginning to sound like a plan. Now, if only the game would arrive. Today would be good ... it is my birthday. But I suspect tomorrow or Friday is more likely.

So, what about Enchanting as a skill? Clearly it can be useful. Is it difficult to do? Again, would it be better served as a Minor (in place of Speechcraft), or should I just train it up as I anticipate doing with my other magic skills.

IMO it's difficult. There's a http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1161675-how-do-i-give-enchanting-a-start/. Basically enchanting very good (or, in another philosophy, game-breaking) items requires a lot of attribute and skill fortifying. I'd say it's pretty useless if you don't want to do this, since you find some good enchanted stuff by looking around. It takes A LOT of money to pay for enchantment services though, so if you ever want to make your own magical items, you might want to take it as major and much Luck and Intelligence with it.

^^^^^^^
Thanks. Perhaps later in the game I will pay to train it up and play with it.
*******

Well, I ordered two used copies of Morrowind for the Xbox, thinking I would allow them to "race" to me for privilege of seeing which would get to be played, and *both* arrived yesterday. So I started a character on my main 360 and messed around a bit last night, but then discovered I cannot be connected to Xbox Live while playing original Xbox games, so I can't be in party chat with friends while playing.

Thankfully, I have a second, older, 360 that I can use to play Morrowind. I have also ordered an original Xbox that shipped the same day as the discs, so hopefully it will arrive today. That way I can compare playing on it to playing on 360. I must say, though, that I think I visually prefer watching the game using an HDMI cable on my 42" TV (I have compared HDMI to RCA on 360), so may very choose using the 360.

So far all characters created have used my build we described above.

Bosmer (Nicolas of the Hawk)
Stealth (Nighthawk)
The Atronach
Agility + Luck
Majors: Marksman 50, Sneak 45, Security 35, Illusion 30, Alchemy 35
Minors: Armorer 15, Spear 15, Light Armor 30, Short Blade 20, Persuasion 20
Miscellaneous: Acrobatics 15, Mercantile 10

Not a bad character, all things considered.

Well, I am playing the character described above, Nicolas of the Hawk.

Our hero (or perhaps more accurately, our hero-to-be) has journey from Sayda Neen to Balmora to Caldera, where he found alchemic equipment and a storage for ingredients -- a wonderful place for a budding alchemist. He is meeting shopkeepers who sell ingredients and learning his way around those two cities. He anticipates spending some days there, honing his alchemy skills and using the funds he earns to train other skills (and attributes) which will enable him to be better prepared to journey out into the dangerous wilds of Morrowind. Thankfully Balmora seems to have a plethora of helpful trainers conveniently available.

Other than finding easy-to-locate mushrooms for a member of the Mages Guild, our hero has completed no quests. Not even those in Sayda Neen, though he intends to return and begin his adventures outside of cities there.

As of this moment, our hero is near leveling up to 2. He hopes he has enough gold to purchase medium/heavy armor training. Afterwards he will seek out Creeper to sell more than 5,000 gold. He has already noticed that trainers seem to charge more when he appears rich, so he will try to appear as poor as possible when he approaches them. Perhaps they will have some pity on a budding alchemist.

Adventures await!


Note:
Any hints/tips/suggestions/etc. that any might want to provide would be welcome as our hero explores the worlds of stealth and magic in the land of Morrowind, still uncertain as to why the Emperor plucked him out of prison and wants him to be a Blade.

Actually, trainers base there prices on two things (that I'm aware of): your mercantile skill level, and their disposition towards you. Therefore - if you're going to do lots of training with someone, it pays dividends to bribe them up to 100 disposition (you certainly won't be able to admire them up that high easily at such a low level). Be careful with your bartering and admire/bribing - you may accidentally gain a level in speechcraft or mercantile that would throw off your min/max strategy.

Thanks much.

You know, now that I have played almost to level 2, I am very close to re-rolling my character and putting Alteration back in rather than Speechcraft. Unfortunately, with Speechcraft as a minor I am using it *less* than I would if it were a miscellaneous skill. From an RP perspective Alternation is part of several archer/stealth builds. From a min/max perspective it would give me one Major or Minor for every Attribute, and two miscellaneous skills for every attribute except Agility. Which will make it easier to min/max to my heart's desire, and is a little more consistent with Atronach as a sign. And while I am in the "city slicker developing his alchemy skills" portion of my adventure, it would be useful to be able to use Mercantile and Speechcraft skills as much as I would like. In fact, it would be nice to use Speechcraft as much I would like, period, without worrying about it leveling me up.

Somewhere along the line I didn't take into account (*sigh* surely you never hear this kind of puns...) anymore that you're a min/maxer. This basically makes my Speechcraft appreciation speech null. Sorry about it having a bad effect on your build!

Too bad you're playing with Xbox. There would be console cheats for PC to edit your character's major/minor/misc skills on the fly. Hopefully starting a new game because of something like this isn't as distasteful to you as it is to me. D:

Have no worries, my kind friend. My first build was also min/max-able, but in those early levels I wanted to be able to use persuasion without concern for leveling. The deepest depths of my min/max desires were not revealed until I started playing. And while it is frustrating to restart, it is not as frustrating as it would have been 20 levels later. But I like choosing stealth as a class precisely because Mercantile, Speechcraft and Acrobatics are all useful skills and will level up as Miscellaneous skills almost as quickly as non-stealth Minors will level up.

Our (new) hero, one Nicolas of the Talon, is currently level 5. Perhaps with his time in prison weighing heavily upon him, he first went about gaining some wealth utilizing his alchemy skills and a complete set of alchemy equipment he located in Caldera. While training up skills requiring endurance, strength, and intelligence, our hero was surprised to amass more than 27,000 gold by Level 4. And was equally surprised to spend 20,000 gold on spells and alchemy ingredients, including bribes to retailers and efforts to increase their stock to make future purchases just that much easier. But a few more trips with potions to Creeper and his surplus of funds was restored.

Our hero has now prepared every recipe suggested by kmelch's alchemist (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1082755-alchemist-build/). Once attaining Level 5, our hero finally ventured out of the cities and returned to Seyda Neen. There he will begin to explore the wilds of Morrowind and discover his fate.

Note: kmelch, there is indeed a substantial long-term benefit of choosing The Lady as a sign ... almost twice as much health for a feeble Bosmer as he will have with The Atronach. I have no intention to change, but just sayin'. My current character must work diligently not to get hurt, which both his sneak and illusion skills should help.

Additional note: Our hero is having a little difficulty triggering Tribunal. He would like some better light armor. But in the meantime will continue adventuring.

On the Xbox, Tribunal triggers automatically at level 6, rather than right away. And you will know when it kicks in.

Long-term? Hm. I can see it in the short-tern, but I assumed part of your min/max was to train up Endurance-boosting skills to get 5x Endurance for the first 7-8 levels (however many levels required to max Endurance - usually I train medium/heavy armor for this strategy). This gets you the max 10 health/lvl for every level after that. So... you maybe miss out on 20-25 health points in the long-run, on a character that will have 600 or 700 eventually. I can see how Lady helps at the start, but how after level 10?... :huh:

[edit] After thinking about it.... I only really min/max these days during the first 10 levels, to get endurance up.... After that, only need an average of ~6 attribute increases per lvl to ensure everything at 100 by the time you max all your skills. I never intervention/recall back to town if I lvl in a dungeon, I just apply the 2x, 3x, whatever I've got, and 1 to luck, and play on. If I'm town when I lvl, I'll train unused misc skills to boost my non-essential attributes, but otherwise, I don't worry about it too much. If you're finding it hard to stay alive.... don't forget about your alchemy!!!

kmelch, you are clearly used to playing Orcs, Nords, and Redguards. Only those begin with Endurance of 50, and therefore can be to Endurance of 100 in 10 levels.

Our hero, my poor Bosmer, started with a measly Endurance of 30. That is a minimum of 14 levels to 100, and since I just leveled to level 6 where I gave bonuses to three other attributes, so for our hero it will be a minimum of 15 levels to 100. Perhaps in the grand scheme of things it won't amount to much, but generally speaking this character will probably not want to stand up and fight. Thankfully with high Sneak and Illusion that should be do-able.

Teka Lynn, thank you for the tip. For some reason I thought it would trigger at level 5. Anyway, boy is that good light armor! I just triggered the encounter and it raised my armor class from 6 to 26!!


Our hero was nervous about figuring out how to get credit for sneaking, and once he found out was so excited about his discovery that he gained five levels. So he leveled up again, and went exploring. He missed the introductory thieves cave that is supposed to be located near Seyda Neen, but is journeying from Seyda Neen to Vivec via land and water. It is a fun land to explore.

St Nickelstew - don't listen to my drabble about min/max, leveling, spreadsheets, endurance, armor, blah, blah, blah.... you are obviously enjoying the game. And that's the best strategy of all. :foodndrink:

Ah, but your alchemy recipes have been very helpful!

And I am using a spreadsheet to level up ... at level 6 I have had nothing but +5s to attributes, and doubt that I will much before level 10-15. With my bonus to Luck at character creation, I will start to add +1 to Luck ever level beginning with my level up to 11. Thankfully I understand all those mechanics from Oblivion.

Just found a Bonemold bow in Vivec. That is, indeed, one confusing place.