About to get Morrowind for the first time. Have been poring over these forums and the UESPWiki page.

I favor stealth-sh characters, and have played them in Oblivion and Fallout 3 / NV.

Below are my thoughts for my first (Stealthy) character for Morrowind. In many respects it is part Archer, part Nightblade, and part Assassin.

Bosmer
Stealth
Favored Attributes: Strength, Luck
The Lady (+25 Endurance, +25 Personality)
-- with favored attributes and sign I strengthen almost all the weakest attributes for Bosmer --

Majors:
Marksman, Sneak, Security, Alchemy, Armorer

Minors: Illusion, Alteration, Light Armor, Short Blade, Spear

My thoughts:
This particular build includes at least one Skill for each Attribute, and has at least one skill for each attribute as a MIscellaneous skill so it can be use to obtain bonuses on level-ups.

Favored Miscellaneous Skills:
To get bonuses for Endurance I will train some combination of Heavy/Medium Armor.
To get bonuses for Strength I can use Acrobatics and perhaps train Long Blade.
To get bonuses for Agility I can train/use Block.
To get bonuses for Speed I can use Athletics and perhaps train Unarmored.
To get bonuses for Personality I can train/use Mercantile and Speechcraft.
To get bonuses for Intelligence I can train Conjuration (I enjoy summoning "cirtters").
To get bonuses for Willpower I can train Mysticism (Mark/Recall and detecting enemies).

With Marksman/Sneak as majors I should be able to kill a few things right out of the starting gate, as it were.
I tend to prefer Athletics and Acrobatics as miscellaneous skills ... that way I can use them as much as I want without worrying about them leveling me up.
I am a min/max'er and really cannot help it; I am an accountant, and I *will* create a spreadsheet to help me level up properly.
Spears are in there because I can use them to fend off foes who get too close, and will help level up Endurance. I anticipate using them more early in the game when I am weaker and perhaps not carrying a shield.
Short blades are obvious; I can use them later in game when I am stronger and when Block has been leveled up.
Being in-class, Mercantile and Speechcraft (and Acrobatics) will level up almost as fast a minors, but will obviously start at lower levels. Are they (particularly Speechcraft) easy to level up to a useful level?

Some Questions:
Alteration or Speechcraft as a minor? Speechcraft is a little better fit with the Stealth class, and would leave Alteration free to train. Alteration has some very useful skills for a Marksman character, particularly levitation, so I want to use it. Is Alteration relatively easy to train up from Miscellaneous to a level where I can practice/use it?

Or, would Acrobatics be better as a minor? Acrobatics as a minor has role-play appeal to me because Bosmer have a +5 bonus, and then I would have all Bosmer skills as majors/minors. But then I would be choosing Acrobatics over both Alteration and Speechcraft.

Armorer or Light Armor as a major? I want to be able to fix my own stuff, particularly as bows and spears wear out more quickly than many/most other weapon types. As listed above, all the skills that can consume/destroy physical resources are included majors: bows (arrows), security (probes), alchemy (ingredients), and armorer (tongs, hammers). Including these as majors means that I won't waste these resources during the process of learning the skills. Hopefully with Light Armor as a minor I will be able to keep myself alive (thankfully Bosmer have a bonus here).

Xbox or 360? Believe it or not, in all likelihood I will have my choice of console.

That is more than enough for a first post on the Morrowind forums. I have been surprised/impressed to see that people still frequent these forums, and look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Speachcraft is very good to have, especially if you plan on joining the Thieves Guild.
But Speechcraft an NOT easy to level at first... any starting bonus you can get will help you a lot.

Acrobatics is fun for roleplaying, and jumping around is very handy in Morrowind (much more so than Oblivion) But it's easy to increase, so you might not need to focus on it too much.

Armorer is VERY handy to have, but I would have it as a Minor, and have Light Armor as a Major.

What else can I add??
Agility is very important in Morrowind, especially for Stealth characters. Luck might seem like a good idea to pick as a Favored Attribute, and it can be great, but maybe not for new players. Agility might suit you better.

The original Xbox is supposed to load a bit faster than the 360, so if you can I would use that. (and I think the old controller has a better button layout for Morrowind... Black and White buttons FTW)

Stealth is a lot of fun! It's always been my favourite, have fun!

Ahhhhh ... Morrowind for the first time. Nice.

If you do it on a console then save your game a lot. Keep many saves.

I will recommend doing it on PC though so you can correct all the mistakes that will happen to you easily and quickly. Stuck in a rock ... easy to fix on PC ... or ... a lot of repitition from your last saved game on a console. Break a quest ... again easy to fix at any time on a PC ... permanently broken on a console because by the time you discover it's broken, it's way too late.

Certainly you must have a 9 year old PC (or newer) that can easily run this game. (Morrowind was released about 9 years ago) I'm trying to suggest a way for you to maximize your Morrowind pleasure as well as the pleasure of doing the two Morrowind add-on expansion packs Tribunal and Bloodmoon.

And you can add fan made mods.


B)

For mods off the bat. I highly suggest:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26348
-This will fix MANY things in the game, and add some other stuff. Obviously, you may not understand all the options at first, but I still suggest having it.

-However, to install that you must install version 1.9 first, which can be found here:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19510


http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Morrowind_Patch_Project
-I also highly suggest this mod, as it fixes many bugs in Morrowind and creates a much more stable environment.

For some optional, yet still suggested mods:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/morrgraphext/files/Beta%20Releases/MGE%203.8%2B%20SVN%20builds/
-MGE is awesome for the fact that you can make Morrowind look waay better. You don't have to use the shaders to make Morrowind look all fancy, you might just use it for Distant Land and allowing bigger resolutions like me.

Those are just a few of the things that should've been in Morrowind from the start .

Aah, replies ... thank you!

I would be *playing* Morrowind right now rather than conversing with you kind folks except that the used copy I purchased via Amazon was indeed in "collectible" condition (absolutely pristine), but the disk was unplayable. So I have two more copies (we will see which one gets here first :sorcerer: ) and an original Xbox ordered, so I should have the opportunity to play original game on original system if I want.

ttraveler, I appreciate the warm vibe of your comments. However, a MacBook Pro and a Compaq notebook purchased in 1995 (256 shades of gray FTW) are the only computing products I own (it is nice to have access to good PC products at work). Additionally, all of the above were purchased for less than $200 U.S., less than what one could spend on a good gaming keyboard/mouse. So Xbox/360 it is. I save a *lot* -- I have used all 100 of my alloted saves for Fallout New Vegas.

Thanks Pluto also for your thoughts.

Based on your thoughts I would have this:

Bosmer
Stealth
The Lady
Strength + Agility (though I still may try Luck )
Majors: Marksman, Sneak, Light Armor, Security, Alchemy
Minors: Speechcraft, Short Blade, Illusion, Armorer, Spear

Favored miscellaneous skills will be:
Acrobatics, Block, Athletics, Mercantile, Conjuration, Alteration. Plus I will train Heavy/Medium Armor and Long Blade for attribute bonuses.
If I read the gamebook correctly Acrobatics should start at 15 (5 +5 for class +5 for Bosmer)

My most-played Oblivion character was an Altmer with Atronach and Luck chosen as one of the favored attributes. He eventually did all guilds (which I know one cannot do in Morrowind) and could do about anything (which again is more difficulty in Morrowind, though at least the training mechanic makes it a little easier in some ways).

Is the Thieves Guild questline good place to start?

Imperial Legion, House Hlaalu, Camonna Tong all seem like good fits from a skill perspective. Will join both Fighters Guild and Mages Guild to access trainers and supplies.

RubyDave,
Oops! Should have been more clear in OP, but I will be playing on Xbox/360. While easy to use/play, the big drawback is no mods. :sadvaultboy:
My post immediately above explains why Xbox/360.

Hmmm ... how much would I hate myself if I only have Strength of 30?

Use favored attributes of Agility and Luck?

Thieves Guild and House Hlaalu are perfect places to start. The Camonna Tong fits you perfect too, but it can be a bit harder at low levels.

The Imperial Legion is not be the best fit for a Stealth character. And if you're roleplaying a thief, you'll quickly loose interest. The Legion is very strict and militant.

30 Strength isn't terrible, but you'll want to quickly level it up, or you'll have trouble with encumbrance.

This is all good to know. The one good thing about my forced "delay" before playing Morrowind is that I can fine-tune my build and plan for the character.

Ultimately I will play as many factions as I can. However, it seems that in the short-term it is in the best interest of my character to stay in-character, as it were, and *first* get good at stealthy activities.

The good thing about the build is that with Acrobatics as a miscellaneous skill I will have a perfect way to improve strength. Using Agility and Luck as preferred attributes should be helpful with lots of stealthy activities early in the game.

Hmmm. It appears like it will be a bit complicated to do all Fighters Guild quests after completing the Thieves Guild quests, though ...

Those two guilds have conflicting quests.
There are ways to bypass the problems, but they are normally not meant to be played with the same character.

I have read on the UESPWIki about a work-around for relatively early Fighters Guild quest, but (from the game guide) when both questlines want you to kill the leader(s) of the opposing guild, even I can sense that there is some difficulty completing both questlines.

I may never do the fighters guild questline as fighter characters don't interest me as much. As I think about it, my second favorite character concept would be a Nightblade-type, and the third an Archer-type. In every case would the character have sneak and marksman as majors.

Edit: Or at least sneak as a major ...

Awesome. I totally know where you're coming from. In fact, you may want to start with my spreadsheet as your handy reference basis. Years of data compilation and trial/error have gone into this, as well as resources from other players, and the latest item stats per the Unofficial Morrowind Patch changelog. Gray cells are inputs. Otherwise, lemme know if any questions! [I'm a chemical engineer, for what it's worth. ]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/2/20/2768514/Morrowind%201.6.5b%2015Jan2011.xls

Min-maxing, LOL. Vanilla Morrowind is too easy even without all that tomfoolery. If the OP wants to min-max and still have a challenging game then I recommend investing in some mods like Morrowind Comes Alive (with the included More Enemies add-on) and Piratelord's Creatures. Otherwise your character quickly becomes way more powerful than 90% of the stuff on the island and rarely faces any real danger. But hey, some people like that.





If you're going to take Illusion you'll get a lot more out of it as a Major Skill. As a minor it's really only useful for short-duration Invisibility spells and that's it. At higher skill levels you can use various Illusion spells that have similar (but superior) effects to Speechcraft as well as various stealth and interference spells. Since Illusion can be tough to raise (unless you spam Training) it's good to get the boost from having it as Major. I would have it swap places with Armorer, which works fine as a minor skill.

Alteration is fine as a minor skill, it's most useful spell effects are all simple to cast. Water-walking, water-breathing, and a custom-made simple Levitate spell.

I appreciate these thoughts on Illusion and Alteration. At one point my build included Illusion as a major and Alteration as a minor.

This is a slightly different build than the one posted most recently above:

Majors:
Marksman, Sneak, Security, Illusion, Alchemy

Minors:
Light Armor, Short Blade, Speechcraft, Armorer, Spear

Pluto and I discussed above including Speechcraft rather than Alteration because Speechcraft is useful for many quests in the stealth-related questlines. Are you suggesting using Illusion rather than Speechcraft for these encounters, and therefore including Alteration instead of Speechcraft as a minor? You agree with Pluto that Armorer works just fine as a minor, and that is just where I will include it.

There is a *LOT* of stuff in that file! Thankfully it is in an .xls rather than .xlsx so my Pages (Mac) could easily open it (though it appears that there are popups and such that might not be working right -- I can download it at work if I want/need access to those).

Not only am I an accountant, but I am a university professor of accounting. Even worse.

For starters what I wanted was a simple spreadsheet with skills down the left side and levels across the top, so I have an idea of what my attribute bonuses will be when I level up. While I don't need to be as obsessive about it as with Oblivion, I really don't want anything less than a +3 at level-up. Seems silly. :angel:

This thread makes me want to do another round of Morrowind. If only I didn't have a backlog of games already.


B)

You want to cast a vote for Speechcraft or Alteration as a minor for this build??

With Alteration in it seems like one could change Short Blade to Long Blade and use the same build for a combat-oriented character as well.

Another hmmm ...

Would it be a bad idea to drop short blade so I could have *both* Alteration and Persuasion?


With my build currently ...
Majors: Marksman, Sneak, Security, Illusion, Alchemy
Minors: Armorer, Spear, Short Blade, Light Armor, Persuasion/Alteration

So I either start with Alteration and train up Persuasion, or visa versa. Which would be easier/more difficult for a stealthy character?

Edit:
The good news is that my copy-to-be of the game has been shipped, so I will hopefully be playing *soon* ...

So, umm, Speechcraft > Alteration. See kmelch's Alchemist Build topic for more... :I

In addition, you have Security as a major skill, so I trust you won't be needing open spells. One more reason not to get Alteration as a minor.

It seems I'm not doing any smart posting today. You do have Security as a MAJOR, not minor skill, and you WON'T be having (that much) trouble opening stuff. :/ Thus, you won't be needing a top 3 important Alteration skill, Open, much.

No, but I found your posts in the order in which you posted them (in kmelch's discussion first, mine second), and found both entertaining on a somewhat bleary day. So thank you. And thank you also for finding *this* discussion. I was second-guessing whether or not I should post in the other location directing you to here when I looked here and found this response.

And I have found your responses quite helpful. I am trying to do this build right, in the sense of being "right for me", and I think I have it pretty nailed down.

Perhaps then I won't be combing these forums and pestering forum-ites quite as much.
:foodndrink:

Pretty much. You don't need Speechcraft if you are skilled in Illusion.

Illusion has several advantages over Speechcraft. As a skill its effects are more potent, flexible and varied than Speechcraft, though only once it's at a half-way decent skill level (40+). You can use Charm spells instead of Speechcraft's 'admire', 'intimidate' and 'bribe' and Frenzy spells instead of Speechcraft's 'taunt'. Illusion also has a host of stealth spells and spells for messing with enemy minds, things that Speechcraft can't do at all. Once an Illusion spell is cast it always has the desired effect on the target (Silence and Paralyze are exceptions), whereas with Speechcraft if you fail the skill check then you annoy the NPC, and many NPCs have a high Speechcraft skill themselves which makes the skill check a lot harder. Illusion spells can also be cast from a distance, speechcraft only works up close.

There are a few downsides to Illusion. You need a supply of magicka points to use Illusion spells, while Speechcraft has no cost at all. Illusion relies on two Attributes (Willpower for casting checks and Intelligence for magicka points) while Speechcraft relies on just one (Personality). Illusion 'Charm' spells are only temporary, while with Speechcraft once you've buttered someone up the disposition change stays forever. Lastly, raising Illusion gives bonuses to raising Personality, an Attribute that doesn't affect the players ability to cast Illusion spells, so to get bonuses to raising Willpower, the attribute that does, you'll need another skill.


tl;dr Illusion is a skill that does more than Speechcraft can but it requires more investment too.



Alteration raises Willpower so that's actually another good reason to take it as well as for it's utility spells (Open not being among them IMHO. Scrolls with strong 'Open' spells spawn contantly in shops and bandit lair crates). You do have Alchemy though which can easily replicate Alteration's most useful effects, so alternatively you might want to consider Mysticism, it also raises Willpower and has useful spells that Alchemy doesn't easily provide. Destruction and Restoration would be a waste with the skillset you have.

I read every word. Carefully. Thank you.

The issue appears to be which set of redundancies is one most willing to tolerate. Illusion and sneak plus illusion and persuasion share common (although sometimes complimentary) effects. Alchamy/Security have overlapping effects with Alteration.

Alteration *does* provide the benefit of providing bonuses to Willpower; however, it can be used to obtain larger bonuses by training it up as a Miscellaneous skill than using it as a minor skill.

One thing I am thinking of are the attributes my character will have -- Personality 65, Willpower 30. This favors using Speechcraft in the short term, and then Illusion in the long-term after I make some cash on stealth-related quests and alchemy, cash which I can use to train Alteration and get some good Willpower bonuses to improve the consistency of spells later in the game.

Magic seems to be in the long-term superior, but the non-magic skills seem to be better immediately. Additionally, my character will start with very low Willpower and mediocre Intelligence and magicka, so I am hesitant to rely too much upon magic at the beginning of the game. So while Alteration appeals to me as a long-term choice, I can use Speechcraft immediately, particularly with a Personality of 65 (thanks to The Lady).

I anticipate training Heavy/Medium armor, Block, and Conjuration and Alteration to improve these skills and to obtain attribute bonuses. And as you can tell, I am strongly leaning toward Speechcraft as my final minor rather than Alteration.

I only wish my ordered game would get here ... .

Out of curiosity - why The Lady? I LOVE me some Atronach. Since you plan to min/max and work the multiplier system, you can quickly make up the attribute deficits. And the 50% spell absorption is something that simply can't be overestimated. Most all enemy spells (except silence, paralyze, other 0-magnitude spells) have 50% chance to be absorbed into your pool of magicka. And your alchemy skills will produce restore magicka potions that easily negate the wombburn. [You can't rest in the middle of a battle anyway...] The Atronach will be useful to you from your first battle to your very last. The Lady will be useful for the first 10 levels. My 2 cents.

It's perfect for thieves.
The personality boost helps with Speeachcraft, and the extra endurance is very helpful for a Bosmer (or any stealth based character who normally starts with low endurance.)

Also, the roleplaying factor. The Atronach is a magic-based sign.

Point taken - then again, he seems to be OK with Magic mixed in with his Stealth... (original build has 3 magic skills as major/minor)