Now I'm playing my first Stealth character, and I found out that it's a pain to get around while in stealth mode. I don't walk around the wasteland crouched, but when traversing big areas like Evergreen Mills it svcks. Can someone make a mod that enables you to use stealth mode when you stand up? I mean, you get the Hidden/Detected/Caution/Danger marker at the top, you're able to pickpocket, and you get a Stealth Critical Hit when you shoot someone while Hidden. Also, it would be nice for having a small penalty for using stealth when standing up (like -10 sneak?), or have the ability rewarded to you somehow (perk?)

Anyone else feels this mod is necessary?

No. This seems totally wrong to me.

You want all the perks of sneaking, but you don't want to have to bother to actually sneak? (which involves hitting one little key)

It's not that I don't want to hit the key, but it seems completely idiotic that I'm invisible (Stealthboy) and it doesn't count like I'm sneaking... I don't care if Sneak Mode only activates when you're invisible, but I want to score Stealth Critical Hits when standing up... Even if my Sneak skill goes down by 50%... Doesn't that make sense?

Sorry, but what you what doesn't make sense to me. The StealthBoy does not make you invisible . . . it just makes you less visible. And the default Stealth Critical bonuses are way too hight (which is why I reduced them in my Realism Tweaks). If your sneak skill is reduced by 50%, you're ability to remain undetected should go way down, yet you want to be able to stand up and still get all the sneak perks . . . makes no sense to me.

Sneak is horrid in the default game, and the StealthBoy is a bit of a cheat (in my opinion, but sort of necessary at times, do to the poor way that stealth is implemented). If you want an improved stealth in your game, you should give my Smarter AI module a try (part of my Realism Tweaks).

Alright, I'll try (I also hate the original Stealth mechanics), but I still think that you should be able to go into Stealth Mode while standing (I bet that in real life you can hide using some kind of almost-invisibility device and standing in a dark corner)...

As much as I adore Arwen's work, from what you are saying, it doesn't sound like her tweaks are likely for you. (Just a feeling)

That having been said, I do understand what you're saying and looking for -- the fact that crouching vs. standing is an automatic failure to sneak - even if you haven't actually been detected yet - makes little sense to me... particularly since there are instances where it shouldn't make all that much of a difference (something that happened to me a while back: standing in a shadow, stealth boy enabled, trying to snipe an overlord in the head from long range - but couldn't get the right angle unless I stood up... I still wouldn't be detected by anyone, but lost the stealth crit by doing so).

...so while on the surface a mod to allow sneaking while standing sounds like "a cheat", I guess I could see something like a moderately high level perk with high requirements that allowed for some limited amount of continuing to sneak while fully upright, difficult as that may be.

Exactly what I mean. It could be only enabled when you stand still, at night time, in the shadows, or a combination o those three...

I have to agree here. Its silly to assume you aren't or cannot sneak around while standing. I can sneak around in real life while I'm standing. Plus if you toggle a sneak mode you would drop into a walk speed and sneak around. Using a stealth boy while standing makes you harder to see because it bends light around the user. But by the same logic. You should be under the same percentage of unseen nature as you would squatting low. What makes no sense to me is while you are considered unseen and invisible literally under an enemy and yet you are standing its a total shock to them that you suddenly appeared out of thin air. =/

Sneak should not have ever been made only while squatting. Squatting should be separate from sneaking altogether. A hot key for toggling sneak mode should be drafted and would work while standing. Obviously if the sneak mode is turned on while standing a new animation with a slight bend in the legs should be tacked onto it. Moving slower and now looking as an animation to be deliberately trying to be unseen would help visually represent this. The stance should also have a lesser chance of hiding. Obviously I could see someone in a standing stance behind a small object like a guard rail. But if squatting. It would be harder to see the person.

The biggest problems-
1- Changing the squat stance to no longer activate/trigger the sneak mode without breaking the game.
2- Adding a hot key to toggle on/off sneak mode and trigger the new animation stance and walking style whilst standing up. Again without breaking the game.
3- Every mod and game play function/trigger/activator in game being able to automatically account for the change in sneaking without breaking the game.

IE- Real Injuries patch uses sneak mode to refill water bottles. Sneak functions would have to be very well done to be compatible to not break the game in many ways.

But I'd be MOST intrigued by the venture. It would be an obvious function re-placer. Not a simple mod addition. It couldn't work as a addition. Would have to replace the whole sneak system otherwise it would be a total waste of my time to even download it.


Edit- I am now reminded of a really nifty game. Thief. The actor can stand in shadows and have a higher chance to be seen. But its still possible depending on the light meter if they are actually seen or setting off a caution level because the npc may think they see something. If you moved. They'd definitely see your actor. If you stood still. There was a chance they'd ignore you and say something like "Hmm, must be my eyes playing tricks on me." It depended on how close they were to the actor. Drawn weapons also made you easier to see. The reflections from the metal would make you more visible.

It doesn't have to be compatible with everything... Also, the animation could only be a final touch. First someone needs to complete the basic - enable Sneak Mode while standing.

Actually it would. If you chose to turn off the sneak function and make it on its own (to make the most of this idea logically). It would break the game aspects if it were not compatible. Everything sitting on top of sneak function would no longer work. Getting the sneak mode to work first would already make everything based upon sneak to function the same without making patches for every other mod/trigger to use this.

Its a tricky mess to move the sneak mode to a hot key and detach it from squatting mode.

Yes it is. That's why we need an expert modder on our side.

Ok. Break out the sad puppy dog eyes and beg in a kiddish voice lol

We may get lucky to have someone like the idea =)

We can try to convince Arwen...

Pweety Pwease???

The reason that I suggested that EliteKill try my Smarter AI module (and NOT my FULL Tweaks) is that my sneak changes include my Dynamic Stealth script, which reduces the perception/radar of the NPCs, based on time of day and the weather conditions . . . and this perception range changes even when you are not in sneak mode (although you'll still be detected much sooner while standing than while sneaking). Plus my Dynamic Stealth script uses different setting for interior stealth. It also makes Silent weapons a LOT harder to detect.

You also have to understand that Line-Of-Sight (LOS) in FO3 is horrid (after all, NPCs can see through buildings), so just hiding behind a rock or tree isn't going to work all that well.

Actually what you are describing is already in place to some extent.
Crouching is only one factor in whether you are detected or not, although it is a major one.
Even when you are standing, the detection algorithms still calculate factors such as light, sound, movement and the distance you are away from enemies, and it is definitely still possible to remain undetected (though you don't get an on-screen indication of this.)

It is important also to realize that the crouching is only the game's abstract representation of the characters efforts to move quietly and carefully, while trying to stay in the shadows. I think the designers were just trying to save having to make an extra set of animations!

If you would like to get a clearer understanding of the actual mechanics behind sneaking and detection, I included a spreadsheet showing a breakdown of all the detection calculations along with my Stealth mod.
Feel free to have a look, or even give it a try if you feel like a more (imo) realistic sneaking experience.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10843

I haven't tried it yet, but I read your description and it sounds like your Stealth mods will add a lot to my FO3 experience.... But I still think that Sneaking while standing up is a good idea....