I'll say it loud and proud.

If I have 100 sneak and 100 marksmen, I want one hit headshot stealth kills.

Playing a stealth character is all about feeling suave and getting away with murder, not popping of a shot and spamming your arrows while running around backwards.

FO3 had it dead right, and the balance was just fine.

Who ever said that there wasn't special animations for dagger sneak attacks :blink:



They have already confirmed twice now that it is possible to pull one shot kills. For more information go http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1158506-skyrim-information-compilation/ to learn more and feel free to leave your thoughts on the information so that we can keep the thread bumped at the top of the forum so everyone can continue to have the information at the ready.

you guys keep saying that you want more of the sneak aspect updated, but what do you really want that hasn't been expressed as already implemented in the game?

Doesn't sound like much but it could be perfectly fine IF it means that:

- the AI reacts to dead mates credibly when we see "actual gameplay" (hopefully not something that is fully set up to look good),
- enemies search around for a while NOT GOING STRAIGHT IN YOUR DIRECTION AT ONCE UNTIL THEY KNOCK THEIR HEADS WITH YOU, - and if after a while empty handed they leave the search and properly return to their routines,
- they react to a missed arrow flying in front of their eyelashes,

then i'm ok.

EDIT


LOL, i'm a HuuuUUUUUuuuuge Thief fan.

Btw now that you mention it, i wouldn' like to see Thief grossly copypasted into Skyrim, it would feel kind of sad. I disagree about the three arrows.
I think noise arrows could be replaced by simply shooting something that breaks or makes noise. Or you could throw coins or crap you carry in your inventory like spoons
Rope arrows definitely out of place, would require a new dimension of vertical design from Bethesda and there's no chance they'll reformulate the whole interiors for that.
And water arrows would be cool but i don't know if it'd feel fine here. Don't think so really.

The ability to extinguish any light in the game - water arrows.
The ability to distract guards etc - throwable objects and noise arrows.
The ability to temporarily stun or knock out npcs.
Rope arrows similar to the Thief games and Dark Messiah.
Flash and smoke bombs.
Different surfaces create different amounts of noise.

And what thartist said about npc ai.

Somehow I get the feeling few of the posters on this thread have played the Thief games. There's more to stealth and thievery than just stabbing someone in sneak mode.

Hahaha! :read: :grad:

Just responding to the OP fellas! I'll give'er a bump though...

Am I the only one that thinks trick arrows are silly as hell? I don't need an arrow with a kazoo for an arrowhead, not when I can shoot a clay pot off a high shelf instead. Same goes for the glorified water balloons.

Well, for what it's worth, I've really only ever thought that there were two large points in need of improvement from oblivion stealth, and one of those was ai reactions. the fact that we're looking at better ai reactions and such has me very excited.

The second thing I believe oblivion desperately needed in terms of stealth was something I see mentioned a lot less. Not gimmicky things like noise arrows and ropes. Those are cool, but a stealth sim they do not make or break.

No, what oblivion lacked was maps and patrols designed properly for stealth play. This is what the thief series had that sets it apart from all other attempts. sneaking around a castle in thief is amazing for the amount of corners to duck into, shadows to take into account, etc. the few maps that were intended for stealth in oblivion, such as the final thieves quest and that dark brotherhood one where you poison a warlord, those were good. but just sneaking into, say, the castle of chorrol...not so good. everything was uniformly lit, with too many cell transitions and guarded chokes to make it any fun to sneak through without straight out negating the challenge via chameleon or invisibility, and that's no fun.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist, though. I actually have my hopes up, for one reason. The radiant story deal could be AMAZING for us stealthy sorts if done right. Imagine going on a quest at level 6 where, instead of a dungeon full of level 5 goblins to mow down, it sees you've been sneaking more often than not, and decides instead to populate the dungeon more scarcely with much more dangerous level 10 elite foes on patrols. one man's bloodbath is another man's thief 2 sim.

I'm very, very eager to see how this plays out.

I'm loving what they're doing with Stealth right now. I like that they are going with something similar to a Fallout type stealth where the NPC reacts instead of saying "Must've been the Wind".

Also Devs keep the Dagger X10 Damage Sneak attack in

x 2

X3

As it's not a pure stealth game there are some things I really don't expect, but they do really need better AI when it comes to stealth.

The NPC hears something, he comes in the general direction OF THE SOUND(not exactly where you are - perhaps you shot an arrow across the room to get their back turned) suspiciously.
If they see you they'd come toward your general direction.
If it is dark and they sense something, some caster NPCs should use a light spell - in which case you might want to tuck behind line of sight or cast invisibility.

Extinguishable lights and surface based noise is probably too much to ask for in a game that's not really focused on stealth like thief. But adding the tactic of distraction and some believable AI would be a huge improvement.

I'm thinking x10 might be a little too much. Maybe x8... But I guess I'd have to see it in practice to figure out how good and balanced it feels with other playing styles.

Agree completely. We really don't need water or noise arrows, what we need are dungeons where you can sneak from shadow to shadow and avoid all enemy contact if you're skilled.
Oblivion had shadows, but it was still very bright in dungeons, and pretty easy for a goblin to spot you. With darker dungeons, torches and light/night eye spells would be more important as well.
I would love harder enemies in a sneakable area for the radiant story quests as well.

Agree. If daggers are to be of any use, the x10 or so sneak bonus has to remain. How do you sneak kill someone with a katana or longsword anyway? Make it so that only daggers and bows can deal sneak atttack bonus to balance out the fact that these two weapons are quite worthless in "honest" combat.

Better AI, the ability to hide after being spotted, smarter NPC's. I'd like to see all of that. And it would make sense that an enemy mage casts light or a that a warrior lights a torch when they think someones sneaking around and are killing their companions.

BTW, hiding corpses would be awesome, but I'm not expecting that.
As I prefer to sneak around without making myself invisible and therefore taking away all the thill of staying undetected, I really hope they have made the chameleon/invisibility spells more expensive while making it easier to sneak from shadow to shadow without magical aid.

I was very happy to hear about special dagger animations for stealth attacks on top of the 10x modifier, (as well as dagger perks in the Sneak tree)

I didn't think stealth was too bad in Oblivion. Mostly it needs better stealth damage modifiers and a better AI.
And by better stealth damage modifiers I of course mean killing animations! And more damage.

so was I.
a dagger to me is a true assassins weapon

I know. In Oblivion you only assassinated people with longswords because they dealt more damage but had the same damage multiplier. That makes total sense...

Yup.Thief is awesome.

...x4 :thumbsup:

I'm a huge fan of stealthy characters. I have one in Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout 3, and Fallout: NV. I really, really would like unique stealth-kill animations in Skyrim. It's kind of lame to just swing a dagger like normal when stealth-killing someone in Oblivion, and just seeing "x5 damage". Actual unique stealth-kill animations like Assassins Creed or Splinter Cell would be awesome.

Edit: Were special stealth-kill animations already confirmed?

I’m anxious to find out if the stealth system combined with the new Radiant AI can provide a better thieving experience. These are the mechanics that I’d love to have functional:
- being able to drag corpses out of sight (provided we don’t have the “dispose of corpse” option);
- appropriate sound sensitivity for npcs. If I’m sneaking in someone’s room while he’s sleeping I expect him to hit the roof when I drop things on the floor or open a squeaky cupboard. Some doors and chests should be noisier than others;
- having realistic light sources. No more invisible light sources because there aren’t enough dark places inside buildings;
- being able to distract guards with noises. Ok, don’t import “noise arows” from Thief, but how about using the normal arrows to make some noise? That requires small ornamental objects on buildings (lanterns, signs, vases, etc) that can be shot for noise;
- being able to escape pursuers by sprinting and hiding. No more telepathic guards, make them fully dependant on eyesight radius, make them slower than Usain Bolt and noisier than a ghost. When they hear some noises inside a building I want to hear them coming, opening doors, asking the thief to show up, so I could have time to hide;
- make buildings appropriate for hiding behind objects;
- make npcs sensitive to the pc’s sneaking stance! It’s ridiculous how I can wander around towns sneaking and nobody runs, no guard asks me what the hell I’m doing. People should react naturally when someone's sneaking behind them, or even worse, in front of them.


PS: crouch/crawl stealth moves would be great, but I guess that's science fiction since there is no climbing either. I would like to be able to enter very tight spots to hide, especially in caves.

That made me laugh alot....maybe because i pictured it...haha

yes they were :thumbsup:

Add little bells to the arrows would be a nice little addition to a "noise arrow".


'jingle jingle'

What was that?