I'm not completely sold on the sneaking but pickpicket from bethesda has always needed a work. It's roll die to see if you have to reload to when a whole settlement didn't try to kill you. I don't roll dice to hack I don't roll dice to lockpick but pickpocket still svcks.

I actually even kind of like the lockpick minigame even though it's more about moving it to a spot and then twisting and not the more realistic applying pressure consistently while moving pins in place or raking pins until it works. Which means I'm not looking for absolute realism just a system that is fun enough.

So when are you releasing your new game engine? You know, the one that does all that?

Honestly I found the lack of "redhand stamping" on stolen items in the game to be a HUUUGGEEE!! improvement compared to Skyrim. So much so that I went on a stealing spree and cleared out every domicile in Diamond City!

I play stealth a lot and it works fine as far as I'm concerned. Is it rudimentary, overpowered at times, completely unrealistic? Yes to all. But fun nonetheless.

I don't think making stealth better would require a whole new engine. Mods did really impressive stuff for skyrims stealth.

When is Bethesda going to finally let Gamebryo die and actually create a new engine that doesn't feel dated?

"Feel dated," what do you mean by that?

Realistically speaking who actually crouch walks in real life when trying to sneak behind someone? If you ever tried to move in a squatting position you would know how difficult it is, let alone trying to not make any noise while doing it. Crouching really only makes sense when you are attempting to hide behind cover.

The careful upright walking with the slightly slouched back you see in games like GTA 5 and older Hitman games when you go into sneak mode is far more realistic in my opinion.

yeah, when you draw, when you get up etc, just like your sniper targets will about ALWAYS start moving in just that very instance where you start holding your breath, it's almost like "alt" was the "make enemies move" key - that's not because they HEAR you - that's because the game CHEATS )

for a hearing check, like, find a place with a tiled floor, jump on a shelf or stg to get a good drop height, and drop a ton of weapons etc to the ground (all sneaking of course so they'll not detect you because of that) - enjoy the noise, and your perfectly intact stealth

might have gotten past your attention that they're using Creation Engine.

which is NOT identlcal with gamebryo.

Mind how stealth works. Please. It's been one of major themes since the beginning of all Bethesda games. It's just the company has plenty of mechanics in the game that they are all watered down to the 'nth degree compared to other games that do it unobtrusively. You can still do the quirky nonsensical unrealistic things in Fallout 4 that you could in Morrowind. Bethesda has good spirit and intentions. They know how to create worlds. They're just taking a dozen games and a handful of console generations to figure out how to polish what they want to do.

Yeah, I found that pretty annoying too. Until you grab the fourth rank in sneak you're basically stuck in [CAUTION] everywhere you're trying to creep around. It doesn't matter how much noise you make banging into everything in sight or dumping off two rocket launchers, four combat shotguns and eighteen alarm clocks to free up some carry space; the second you accidentally take one single step too quickly, the entire [censored] skyscraqer starts hunting you down.

The best, and by best, I mean worst, is sneak shooting someone in the head..they scream:


"What? Who's there"


"Huh..gotta lay off the jet"


Just once I would like a mode that aggros everyone during a failed sneak crit or just a bad decision, like trying to sneak kill 4 people from the opposite room.


Im not just picking on Beth, many games do this..mI have always found it absurd..but Bethesdas version of it just reeks of cheese a little more than most.

You do realize creation is pretty much modified Gamebryo? So, yeah if you wanna play with words, sure I guess they're not using gamebryo. It still feels dated though, you can only do so much by modifying a 10 year old engine.

I got a mod in Skyrim that did that. It was both wonderful and horrible at the same time. it did make stealth more rewarding and way more challenging at the same time, I do like it in FO4 when the raiders hear a gunshot and yell at their buddies to knock it off or talk about someone shooting molerats again though.

Explain to me how this logic doesn't apply to new versions of the CryEngine, idTech, or Unreal though. Hell, I'd be surprised if there weren't niggling issues in those engines, too, that still exist in updated versions.

I'm sure there are, and I think that apart from CryEngine (I mean compare the so called "updated" versions, it's pretty much like a brand new engine) you do have a point. But after seeing CDPR's RedEngine 3 which is leaps and bounds ahead of 2 and Konami's FOX engine ( say what you want about MGSV but that engine is fkin nuts), I can't help feeling that I'm playing a dated game.

Now I don't mind that at all generally, I play through Baldur's Gate 2 and NWN atleast once a year, it's just that it pains me to see Bethesda who has the funds required to take the extra step not taking it.

Don't get me wrong I'll probably play the hell out of FO4, but I just feel like it could have been so much better.

Just once I'd like to see a raider medic rush to the scene with a stimpack.

speaking of which: why are the ranks in this order AGAIN (just like in skyrim)??

i want to running not affecting stealth FIRST, and THEN no triggering traps and mines - not being detected is SKILL, not triggering traps is CHEATING, and i don't want the darn cheat ranks to get my silent running (and where's silent roll, damn?

following your line of argumentation, you're playing a 22 year old game (fallout) on a 30 year old os (windows). so what big dif would a 10yo engine make there?

If you're out of constructive things to say just don't bother posting

his point is valid. Saying the FO4 engine is 10yrs old is like saying windows 10 is 30 yrs old.

Except it isn't. Look at the differences between 30yo windows and windows 10, now look at the differences between FO3 and FO4, graphics are better, combat is a bit better.... that's it. I wouldn't be making this point if they had made significant improvements over Gamebryo with Creation, but they haven't. If you can't see that.... welp, too bad.

MGS is an 18 year old game according to your logic, and the new FOX engine made a huge difference in the gameplay (pls don't mention story/dialogue/writing as the engine has nothing to do with that). So there point rebuked, instantly. The fact that people actually thought your point was valid makes me sad.

C++ is 32 years old. C is even older than that. Hell, binary is over 300 years old.

I guess most of our computers and mobile devices are obsolete.

Well, if it ain't the engine, it's the devs Pick your poison.

So for windows i should compare DOS to win 10 and for Bethesda i should make a comparison that is equal to comparing win 7 to win 10? No. You compare Oblivion to FO4 because THAT is a 10 year gap.

Oblivion didn't have any of the following:

shadows

motion capture animations

occlusion culling(everything was rendered in a cone view out from camera regardless of line of sight)

navmesh path finding

fully drawn distant land,

image space culling(no rain under structures)

There is more. You are wrong.

Edit: oh and the only thing in that list that was in FO3 was navmesh.

I guess you missed the graphics are better (still not up to par with other AAA releases though) part of my post. What you conveniently left out is that combat is average at best compared to other games whether 3rd person or 1st person, animations are still just as bad, AI is still pretty damn bad and the list goes on. If when you play FO4 you don't realize that the gameplay feels dated, good for you. You wouldn't know decent gameplay if it ran over you with a truck.