That's not objective in the least and has nothing to do with the so called "dated" engine. There is no general consensus on what is or isn't good game play because that is entirely subjective. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

Oh and you conveniently left out the part where those other game engines are not even remotely capable of sustaining a Bethesda open world and providing the mod-ability that this engine is specifically designed for. We have to sacrifice a few of the more modern comforts to accommodate a super moddable dynamic game world. Sorry but we can't have our cake and eat it too.

Tell me one good reason Bethesda should ditch this formula that sets them apart from everyone else and has earned them 50% more income with each successive title since Morrowind.

You armchair developers are hilarious. If it's so damn easy then show us how it's done.

Regarding that "occlusion culling" thing . . . other day I was at Somerville Place doing some building. It was raining and I was taking a pause. Because of the rain, the surface of this machine gun turret was much more reflective and shiney.

That is when I noticed: standing with the house behind me and looking at the machine gun turret, the house behind me was reflected in a warped (as a result of the curvature of the machinegun barrel) and distorted mirror image on the narrow curved upper surface of the barrel. It was amazing.

"Good gameplay" is not entirely subjective, responsiveness, fluent animations, good AI, proper difficulty scaling can be objectively viewed.

I will admit that I don't know much about the modability of other game engines, but from what I've read it's more "we don't want you to mod our engine" rather than "our engine doesn't support it".

Yes Bethesda have been hugely successful, that's one of the [censored] reasons I'm so annoyed. They have the funds to produce something much better yet they don't. Because they know it's gonna sell like hotcakes based on their previous successes, so why bother? And what you're doing is giving them a free pass. FO4 gave us nothing that was a huge improvement over 3 or NV 6 years after those games were released. It even took steps back (this is my opinion but one that's widely regarded as correct) in story-telling/dialogue/writing and player choices.

Also about your comments on "armchair developers" all I have to say is this: You don't need to be a chef to know the soup tastes like [censored].

I'm still gonna play the hell out of this game, I'm just disappointed because it could have been so much better.

Bad anology because taste is purely subjective. I happen to think seafood(crab, lobster, shrimp, etc) tastes like [censored] but lots of people disagree with me. How can this be?

Political engineer builds bridge based on his own flawed design>bridge collapses, people die>families demand justice>he responds:build a better bridge if you can plebs. Happy now?

I think difficulty is a major factor in how successful stealth can be. I have heard people state that they really don't need to invest in stealth perks and I am WTF? I have all stealth perks all covert ops magazines wearing shadow tier 1 leather ultra light armour (Thank god for ballistic weave keeps me safe.) And i STILL get 'spotted' sneaking through raiders or super mutants isn't really viable, sneaking around sure but through? No way.

I believe the difference is that I play survival mode and that makes stealth far more difficult. I don't think there is anything wrong with how Bethesda does stealth and I really Question when gamers say, doing things 'MY WAY is better and takes minimal effort to employ.' Yeah that is just gamer BS, the vast majority as in the 99.9% of gamers have zero experience in the gaming industry and have no idea what the frak they are talking about with regards to how long or how difficult implementing X feature into a game will be. Well This other game had it so how hard could it be. It isn't enough for a game system to work in isolation it has to work in tandem with all the other game's systems and that isn't a simple as gamers think or want it to be.

I have never experience NPCs magically knowing where I am, But I don't stealth attack from the same location over and over again. I attack once maybe twice then MOVE and it works like a charm. Suppressive fire is designed to make you THINK they know exactly where you are but they don't nothing magical about it and you have to move AWAY not just 5 or 10 feet. It is suppressive fire, they are spraying a large area because they DON'T know where you are.

I made a low agility max perception sniper so no bonuses to sneak attack, but invested in explosives and i lay a small mine field around my position snipe once or twice and move away to a new position and watching the enemy run into the field is a joy. I have to use this tactic because I often can't one shot a strong enemy even with a head shot with no sneak attack bonuses. But perked explosives more than makes up for it.

Wearing heavy armours (Heavy as in WHAT it actually weights) makes it easier to spot you I found the key to stealth play is, having strength 3 (Yes 3 strength so i can get the armourer perks) and joining the railroad to get Ballistic weave. I can wear military fatigues with ballistic weave and a hat with ballistic weave with light leather armour and be pretty hard to spot. But it is survival mode for me so the enemy will spot you at times when they are close in this mode. Top tier ballistic weave gives you 22 DR and ER for torso and all your limbs and 110 DR and ER for your head. Adding in the light layer of leather beefs this up gives you lots of protection for late game play without making you easy to spot.

And here in Lies the problem. Games are not developed at the same time or under the same condition from one studio to the next even games with the same release date. All game engines are NOT created equal. Most AAA shooters only look great because they are so linear and they are also heavily scripted in combat because they KNOW there is only one or two directions the player can come from. This makes combat and art design exponentially easier. Shooters look better than any other genre of games because there isn't much going on in a shooter it is simplistic. And the vast majority of shooters couldn't handle the demands of a Bethesda game. GTA has a lot fewer systems in play then FO4. Halo again a lot fewer systems.

Shooters are beginning to get more complicated with progression mechanics but these are a RELATIVELY new aspect to them, more open world shooters are again RELATIVELY new to the genre. Open world has been part of RPGs since wizardry, progression since the dawn of computer rpgs. The more systems your engine has to deal with the worse the game looks graphically. look at the graphical benchmark games they are look fantastic but they isn't much to the actual game. That doesn't mean the game isn't enjoyable it just isn't complex.

Bethesda said they were making two games with their current engine these turned out to be Skyrim and FO4. IT is wilful ignorance to claim FO3 and FO4 are using the same engine. They don't look the same and there have been vast improvements to systems.

The one of the biggest problems gamers have is unrealistic expectations. Oh the game X, Y & Z came out this year what don't ALL game released this year look as good or include the same features ect. WTF? So a studio was suppose to magically know what was coming out this year and have planned their 3 or 4 or 5 year development cycle around that info? Stop being so fraking unreasonable.

A REASONABLE person doesn't expect games released in the same time to have all the same features companies makes games in relative secrecy. Compare games with the previous title. FO4 looks better than skyrim, FO4 has better AI, the enemy doesn't stand over a dead body going what happened here while you line up you next kill shot. THey go into cover, they send out patrols to find you, they lay down suppressive fire in your general direction. This is a vast improvement to Skyrim. FO4 is more stable then Skyrim on release. Everything ABOUT this game shows they learned a LOT from skyrim. Companions actually have personality, the stories in FO4 are richer and better written. The writing in general has improved demonstrably.

What have they learned from MGSV or WITCHER 3? NOTHING because there was no way to learn anything in time to effect development. And it is Unreasonable gamer expectations that think they should. Oh you are just trying to give FO4 a free pass will be the automatic response many people will take from this and that is BULLSH!T. I am not giving them a free pass i am stating that development doesn't happen over months or weeks it happens over years and expecting a game to learn from a game released in teh same year is unreasonable. And not all genres are the same RPG as more complex than shooters in that they have more systems at play then the average shooter which means a shooter can devote more money to each system because there are fewer systems. Why do you think MMO RPGs look worse than MOBAs or online shooters?

Personally if a company makes a game and it is an improvement from their previous title players should applaud this not attack them because it isn't like X game released 3 months or 6 months ago.

People keep saying fo4's engine is totally new but I bet you can't load witcher 3 in witcher 1's engine.

Halo had elements of that "phantom actor" -system in place. Thief too. Those were over a decade ago.


I'd like Bethesda to take more influence from Hitman-series.




That might be practical, but visually speaking... meh.




Thiiis. Not triggering traps is just so boring.

Easy there angry manchild. What applies to FO4s development cycle applies to the development cycle of every other [censored] AAA title out there. It's not like TW3 was completed in 6 months. You are giving them a free pass, the last game they created on this engine by Beth was Skyrim, I don't see huge graphical improvements, I don't see vastly improved animations, all I see is more of the same with some added fluff. The only "game changer" that FO4 has is settlement building which even though poorly implemented and glitchy as of right now, admittedly can be pretty fun. But that's it.

Can't see the forest for the trees huh?

Don't remember how abysmal the shadows were in SK?

Skyrim had image space reflections and SSAO?

Skyrim had hair and cloth physics?

Look, the fact is Skyrim didn't have a single DX 11 feature, not one. FO4 engine has a lot more horse power compared to Skyrim.

Not to mention mechanical improvements such as being able to sprint, while turning, jumping and swimming, none of which could be done in Skyrim. The list is quite long in that category.

The shootings better. It's a 3D Fallout game with almost good shooting.

Enough for me. I worked hard in F3 and NV as I won't use VATS and play on the hardest setting. That means elaborate tactics on occasion and it's fun to use shooter skills instead. It's coming back, I can kill Blowflies now.

So standard graphical features that every AAA game has, sprinting while turning + fluff. Yeah totally 5 years worth of improvements. Sigh.

Well said.

I wish there was a "Surival Mode MY WAY" = all damage in game *5 and some *10. No healing crippled limbs without convalescing under a doctor's supervision for awhile (a realistic time frame of months or years would be unfun, but at least a few days or a week or two). Food does not heal though it does do other stuff. Stimpack healing slower and less capacity overall. Non player character actors no more able to absorb damage or able to deal it than the PC, however, MORE of them, LOTS more! As in . . . if there is one feral ghoul you just know there will be 20. If there is one Raider, you are pretty sure there will be at least four more in the immediate vicinity. Making nonplayer actors a bit quicker on the draw and much less able to go back into "derp mode" after they have detected you would be good.

Bullet Sponge = More difficulty just never suited my tastes.

Please hurry with that GECK Bethesda!

There's already a mod for that in nexus iirc.

No mods for me until GECK. Too much trouble. Also, I'd like to get as far toward "finishing" the game as possible in vanilla state before I start modding it myself.

Eh it's pretty safe, I just back up my savefile just in case. And yeah I do that too, finish the game vanilla (except for like texture mods and reshade/enb) then mod the hell out of it.

Heh, heh . . . once the GECK is released, I don't intend to play the game much, but I will be playing with the GECK a lot! My Skyrim build has about 110 to 120 mods if memory serves.

If you don't mind a playthrough getting hosed I'd guess all mods out even now are "safe."

Well, the good thing is that it's possible to pick the right perks so that you become utterly OP in Stealth by level 35+. The Deliverer pistol is nice, as well.

So, while detection is showing [DANGER] you have never experienced the enemy knowing your exact location even when you move to a completely opposite location relative to the enemy? I'm talking about them seizing fire and then starting fire at you the second their 360* line of sight is unobstructed. This is a frequent thing happening, it's almost never not happening.

Also, I may not be a seasoned game developer of 10+ years of experienced, but I know basic math and about vectors in a 3D space and how an entity detect another entity by determining it's view vector relative to the targets location. It's the same system that detect whether you're attacking him from behind or from the front. In any given scene in Fallout 4, there's typically a total of 4-5 enemies at most, occassionally 6-7 but almost never more than that. You're telling me that the engine won't have enough memory to detect where I'm located relative to the entity's view vector, thus reducing its detection ability? It's already in the game during [CAUTION] and [HIDDEN], but for some reason it cannot still be working during [DANGER]?

In my limited knowledge I'm gonna call bull on that one. But what do I know.

Yeah, I agree. I hated the fact that you had to take that no trap trigger perk in Skyrim just to move farther up the tree. It's incredibly cheap, same with this time around.

except it isn'. engine changes from fo3 to skyrim alone involved, like, a whole new scripting engine, new game systems like scenes etc and totally refashioned the way the engine distributes processing time (gametime vs events), and a long list of other stuff.

deinitely not nothing anyway, and that' just the changes of <4y (or if you want to go back, fo3's technical predecessor oblivion didn't even have navmeshes, just for an example).

for fo4, i'm still playing and haven't touched any of the game files yet, so just guessing what might be new, but it definitely is a lot, i can tell so much from watching the in-game surface alone.

yeah, the problem with your point is just that it's measurably false, as any comparison of engine features clearly shows. so i'm not sure what you're actually trying to argument anyway, that the game would be better with another engine? contrary to that, i say, the game wouldn't be the game with another engine. like, turn away for a sec and have a different car stand at the traffic light? no thanks.

edit: the last title i remember having played running on _actual_ gamebryo btw was "sim city societies" (must've been around the same time as fo3). not exactly what i'd count as "the same as fallout".... (even though a nuke edition of it would've been nice

the, uh, "screen" of the recon scope is a rear mirror. it reflects what's behind you )

(or i've played too long yesterday (when i first noticed that) and hallucinated, back to game to verify in a few minutes

Going to stop you right there. When your detection shows [DANGER] the enemy has spotted you, you can't just run around the corner because they will see you run around the corner and follow.

Yeah, except I just ran through 5 additional doorways without them seeing it and I flanked them without a sound? Yeah, they're firing in the exact opposite direction, thinking I'm there. Clearly, if they're following me, they'll see where I'm going, but even then they need to actually see where I'm at. Have you never been doing Airsoft? People won't know where you go once you're behind that cover and you keep on moving. In fact, professionals will assume you're gonna move away and they'll look for you elsewhere - but they won't know where you are, cause people don't have magic x-ray vision.

But hey, what do I know. The point is that enemies have X-Ray Magic Vision whenever Danger is on. And it makes zero sense to me. But if it makes perfect sense to you, then we see things differently and I respect that.