If that's true, I REALLY hope bethesda enables that option.

FO3's steam version was like this. However, NV is using steamworks for its achievements, so this probably won't be possible.

Yes, I saw your post, thanks. It's probably as close to an official answer as I'll get. Still, since CCNA referred to this thread as the steam thread, I was rather hoping it would also be the thread for a Beth answer.

I don't see why people are blowing up over Steamworks.

I mean, hell, in the first post it's very clearly stated that you don't need to be connected to the internet to play! Besides, most people usually keep their computers or at least their routers constantly connected to the internet, so how is this a problem? Steam isn't going through your files, stealing your info, and planning on taking over the world... I've never had my account stolen, or been locked out of Steam.

As for "losing control over your games" - Steam isn't dying! They servers aren't going to suddenly shut down without a fanfare and the company go "Well, we had a good run, bye". It svcks that you can't resell your games, either, but why does that matter? By the time you want to, you probably won't get a good price for it, anyway. If you bought one of the big Collector's Edition boxes of NV, however, I'm quite sure that anyone buying that probably wouldn't care about the game disc...

Besides - chances are, there'll be mods to remove Steamworks from the game, like with GFWL, after some time.

The whole "we will patch Steam out" thing from Valve has never been said in a legal contract, only in customer service inquiries, and perhaps more importantly to this thread it only applies to Valve games. Valve cannot patch out DRM on another company's products unless it was stipulated in the original contract, which I highly, highly doubt it was.

The short answer is that you are talking about function and we are talking about principle. If Bethesda wanted to send a guy out to my house to verify I own the game box, then input his special code that allows me to install it, that would work functionally, but it would still be amazingly over-the-top. Steam works, no one here is saying it doesn't even if it annoys some of us. My amazon pre-order will come in and I will install the game and play it, I am not worried about that. I am worried about what it means for game ownership, what it means for playing the game in 20 years and what it means for hassling the consumer instead of rewarding him or her.

Remember, we're paying Bethesda for a product... not to be hassled.

Of course there will. But they are called cracks, not mods, and are illegal.

"Vote with your wallet" sounds like something a pirate would say. "Should I pay for this product or should I not pay for this product - that's the question. Oh, I'm pretty broke right now so I'll vote with my rather thin wallet. Downloaded!"

You don't have to be overall GOTY to call your game GOTY, you only need one publication to call it GOTY. I'm willing to bet that at least one will do so.


That still doesn't prove anything. This is Bethesda's first so we will have to wait and see. Honestly I think Beth is using Steam as means of releasing DLC as they are produced. Once the GOTY edition is released with all DLC then Steam won't be a necessity for them any longer.

But they would have to make a new version without Steam, and they would have to offer support for that version.
And as much as I would like a non-Steam version, I don't think that is going to happen.

Looks like somebody never actually spend 1 minute to read Steam EULA...

When you buy a game on Steam the only thing you are buying is a "subscription", buying a game on Steam is no different than paying for one month in World of Warcraft, you don't own the game, you don't even own a license to use the game, the only thing you did was take a subscription that let you use the game, this subscription CAN BE CANCELED anytime Valve feel like it, exactly like Blizzard can shutdown WoW anytime they want.

You know the EULA is not just some funny legal text without meaning just there for fun, it's sometime useful to look at what you "accept" before accepting it.

I know you don't want to hear it, but online activation is not going away, and is certainly not limited to NV, Steam, or games in general. Read your EULA for any software you have installed--you don't own software, Period. You have purchased a licence to use it, and that licence can almost always be revoked by the developer/publisher. This goes for games, other applications (my AutoCAD stuff all requires online activation), even your operating system. The disk you buy for Windows is convenient for installing from, but is worthless. Without the sticker and the serial number printed on it, you can't activate your OS, and it will eventually be rendered useless (after 30 days).

It's nice when software offers an alternative offline activation option (phone in for an activation code, for example), but these days, it is generally assumed that if you are using a computer, you are online. How do you even maintain a PC without having at least occasional access to the internet?

With almost any software you use, you will be limited in the future if the activation method/company has disappeared, and as I said, there isn't much software sold anymore that doesn't require some sort of verification from the publisher to activate it. At least Valve has said that they would remove the Steam activation requirements if they are shutting their doors, and they have built in the tools to do it. (Whether that happens when the time comes is a matter of speculation.)

Of course I would prefer to install from a disk and never have to activate a piece of software, but that is increasingly rare these days. I'm certainly not going to miss such a highly anticipated game as NV because I don't like the way ownership/licence rights have evolved for software. If I refused the terms of all EULA's on principle, I guess I would be running a Linux computer and only playing old DOS games.

I say, don't worry so much about the distant future and enjoy the game. If Steam shuts down 25 years from now and you still want to play NV, I'm sure that some enterprising soul will find a way to make it work, even if the companies fail to.

It's not like that would be difficult for them. FO3 GOTY was released fully patched and they have offered no further support (ie: no new patches) since it's release. It would be a one time deal so that argument is also invalid. Your entitled to think what you want as am I.

Anyone else want to chime in on how it's never going to happen so I can dismiss your worthless opinion as well?

Bethesda is using Steamworks with all of its new titles. Brink will also be using it. It's not going away. The GOTY version will likely also require Steam to run.

Again, you don't know that to be true. Do you work for Bethesda? No? Didn't think so. Sales will decide what stays and what goes.

As an Aussie one of the main reasons I like Steam is that the games are far cheaper. To buy a new game here you are looking at about $90.00 and upwards. I just pre-ordered FNV for $49.95. Also I have been using Steam for a while now and I don't seem to have the problems that others have. Not saying that they don't exist I have just been lucky. I also had no end of troubles with GWFL with Fo3 so was happy not to have to use that. So, personally, I am glad that it's out on Steam.

Well you don't really know that, Microsoft hasn't died, Yahoo hasn't died either but both decide one day to kill one one of their DRM using music service leaving all those who had the bad idea to buy from them with useless audio files.

But another thing that most seems to forget is that Steam dying is not the only risk, another problem is that nothing is written in the EULA or anywhere concerning the activation policies leaving Valve total freedom to change their mind anytime they want. If tomorrow Valve decide that you can only activate you games three time before having to re-buy them they can, it's written nowhere that the activation will always remain unlimited.

I know that peoples will say that Valve a "nice guys" and will never do that but that's a little naive, Valve is a company, management can change, the company can be bought by another one with less lenient DRM policies or Gabe can just have a bad day. And let's not talk about regional restriction, Valve is already preventing some games from being activated in certain countries, too bad for those living there, and what happen if the country you live in suddenly decide to ban certain sort of games, will you still be able to activate your games ? of course you can use a VPN to circumvent regional restriction but if you are caught by Valve you will have your account banned. (And living in a country that is thinking about banning video games except kiddy and casual stuff I feel rather concerned about region restriction)

Lucky you, here it is ~$45 retail and ~$60 on Steam.

All the PC's I've ever had where like a 100 bucks and slow as hell. Like the kind of computer you get at a garage sell. All dusty and filled with problems. :sadvaultboy:

That's why there's 360's :hubbahubba:

In today's market there really is no excuse to not have a modern PC. Don't come at me with 360 pricing either because on it's release day it was 600-800$ It's true you can get an elite today for 300-400$ but if you got that kind of cash then you got a little more for a PC. You can't buy a console a 100$ at a time like you can a PC either. Right now you can get a PC that runs FO3 rather well for around 500$. 5 years ago a PC at that price could barely run OB.

While this is true, it's also rather unlikely. Valve is aware of how much people hate limited licenses, and one of their big selling points for steam is that games are tied to account rather than hardware. It's possible for them to totally change their mind on this matter, but it'd be poor business sense and rather out of character for the company. I for one will cross that bridge when I come to it, much as how I don't stock up for alien invasions or the moon falling on Earth and wiping everything out.



Yes, let's not. Because if the country you live in bans access to your games, that's not exactly Valve's fault.

Not to mention they are a company based in a certain, very, very class-action trigger-happy country. There is no way thousands of customers (and the FTC with their ongoing DRM investigations) wouldn't go medieval on them...
As I already stated, local laws are superior to any EULA. If it does not conform with the law - it's invalid.

I don't exactly remember thousands of customers going medieval and making a class action against Ubi or C&C4 always on DRM, what make you think it would be any different if Steam decided to change their policies ?

Class action are nice but to be able to make one you actually need to have at least some legal ground for it, you started a subscription knowing that this subscription could be canceled anytime, I an no lawyer but I really doubt that you can anything the day this subscription end up canceled.

Keep this at a discussion level please, within the forum rules.

I know, but if Fallout: New Vegas and Brink are using it, I strongly doubt Bethesda will back away.

Steam is here to stay. Plus, it won't affect the functionality of mods or gameplay either. What is there to worry about?