That is true. Then again, they aimed for the same thing they do now - to bring the gamers and with the account bind them. In case of FC2 it was with DLC packs, Anno reintroduced the limit with the addon.

And now we have their stupid system of always online DRM and the idiotic uPlay business. They won't stray from that until it's too heavy on their purses. Which I hope is before BG&E2. That's why my question might have seemed surprised, the SecuROM thing kind of faded out behind the noise the uPlay/UbiStarter thing makes.

Anyway, this was supposed to be about New Vegas. I think the actual reason for using Steamworks is some kind of protection for the DLC files - those were probably even easier to pirate than F3 itself. Just a hunch.

Also they totally destroyed the second hand value of the PC-version.

So you're saying he's going to have to spend $20 a month for a dialup ISP just to play a single player game? If you put Steam into offline mode, it won't stay offline forever. After a certain time or number of runs, it forces you to go online to authenticate your account. You can set a game to not auto patch, but it still checks for updates when you run the game. If it sees there is a newer version, it doesn't let you play until you patch it.

But that's not one of the choices, is it?

Steam (or Steamworks, in this case) is used primarily to combat the sales of second-hand copies. That's pretty much it. It's not intended to stop piracy at all.

I have no qualms with Steam; publishers are just trying to kill the second-hand market to force those people who would the buy the game to buy it new or not buy it at all. They are not targeting pirates because most pirates would never buy the game anyways.

Looks like this is the wave of the future. I better upgrade my broadband connection.

They(Valve/Steam, not the publishers) are also killing lots of competition. Now there is only two options, Steam or retail. Meaning Direct2Drive, Impulse and other digital distribution sites won't be able to sell any copies of these games.

There's a second hand market for PC games? I haven't seen a store that would even take PC software returns, let alone buy back & sell used, in eons.

Any use of internet activation, Steam or otherwise, means that me nor my friends won't be buying this title at all. Maybe the publishers will someday learn that legit customers HATE internet activations even if it's Steam.

It saddens me that someone still hires knuckleheads to positions that have the power to decide these things.

There have been a few steam threads i merely brought all the points to one place. I've never liked the service but there are a few games that are Steam only... i'll rent FNV for the PS3 though gamefly and get my fix.... if i like it enough and the price drops then and ONLY then will i commit to a retail purchase purely because of thre choice to force steam on the customer.

I bought 2 copies of F3 one collectors edition and the GOTY
Ive bought 2 copies of Oblivion and Morrowind as well the same way.

FNV and there choice to force a 3rd party app means i wont buy until its cheap as all get out... and i can guarantee it around $5 in a little over a year from release so im not worried. The PS3 version better be beyond impressive though for me to reduce my standards to support a game that forces Steam and doesn't need/use GCF files for gameplay.

Half-Life series and other Source games are steam, there also mostly multiplayer and i fully understand the need for steam and accept it for those games... for FNV there is no reason at all except to make money though steam sales; which could have just been added to the steam catalog from day one... They could have EASILY had only a disk check and serial for retail box copies and allowed you to add it to the steam library and use stem as an option. That way you would only needed to have steam installed if you wanted, otherwise a Fallout 3 launcher CDcheck would be all you needed ALA Fallout 3 style.

because they refused this method which many other devs have done i cannot support the product at launch.

So, have I understood this thing correctly: Steam is only used for the initial activation during installation, after which it moves to a non-mandatory backgroung item - no need to login (even for offline mode) to play?

No, you will need to connect to Steam EVERY time you play the game and you need to use Steam client to begin the game.

No, you STAY logged in, can keep Steam well in the background and deactivate the "update as soon as possible" option for New Vegas, then switch to offline mode, and never ever bother about it again. With ~40MB memory usage, Steam is not even that big.

You don't seem to understand what Steam means for the game. Basically the moment Steam closes doors your game will be USELESS and you will never be able to play it again, nor if your internet connection gets disconnected or a number of other reasons.

GFWL was OPTIONAL, it wasn't required to play the game OR the DLC. You just used the GFWL client to buy and download the DLC. Which is a LOT better than this Steam crap. It's unfortunate that you people don't seem to understand that by using Steam they aren't selling the game to us but a service that allows us to play the game for some time (until Steam closes). That is UNACCEPTABLE.

I'm sorry but you are dead wrong. Steam needs you to login every few days for the offline mode to work. And you WILL need the Steam client open to play ANY games on it. You CANNOT unistall Steam if you want to play the game.

That's not something I'm worried about. The service seems pretty healthy and even if they do close, I'm sure someone else will be there to buy up the licenses. The bottom line for me is, Steam works. GFWL didn't work worth a damn.

I don't know for certain as the info post was a bit vague on exactly how they've implemented Steamworks in this particular game. But fwiw - https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555

Valve has stated that they have tools available in their development kits to install games from Steam backup or original game disk that would emulate a local steam activation, thus circumventing the Steamworks protection for said game. Those will be adapted for public release if Steam ever sees its downfall coming. The only people screwed on this faraway date are those unfortunate enough to not have a DVD burner or external HDD to backup their games to. For those it would be as disastrous as all the prophets call it.


And I've not been online on my local PC for weeks, yet still my Steam games installed there work. The problems you describe are a thing of the past with the new client.

€: Okay, why do I bother? Can't make blind people see...

Haha, you're really naive, aren't you? When Steam closes I guarantee you, you will lose all your games. Steam works if it's OPTIONAL. Making the game require Steam is unacceptable and I will not buy the game. I will advice all my friends and others on various forums over the internet to do the same. BS like this needs to stop. You're only punishing legit customers as Steam DRM is weak at best. Good luck to Obsidian as well, I bet you a hundred buck New Vegas will be number one in torrent sites as soon as the game is unlocked on Steam.

If I buy a retail game I expect it to work out of the box without any other BS or having forced to make backups to make it work in the future. And you're really ignorant if you think Valve has any intention of making their tools available when they go down.

P.S. You're the blind one if you don't understand the ramifications of forcing people to use Steam. If it were optional I'd be all over it, but since the game REQUIRES it, I won't be supporting this product in any way.

Some guy said that he's never encountered that "log in online to verify you have a valid Steam account"-thingie, and the longest he used Offline mode was for 4 months. I've only used Offline mode for a couple of day the longest, so I don't know. I don't really survive without an connection.

I doubt I'll convince you otherwise, so I guess you won't be playing the game.

That's not the point though. The point is that the game won't function without Steam and you WILL lose the ability to play the game you paid for in the future, make no mistake.

I'm not the one who needs convincing. Stupid decisions are stupid decisions. I use Steam daily and I like it mostly. But when a RETAIL product FORCES you to use Steam that's crossing the line.

Obviously the decision makers thought people wouldn't see that it's just another way of forcing internet activation and sadly it seems that some of you are eating the BS.

If Steam goes down in 10 years, I'm sure I'm not playing Fallout New Vegas anymore. Maybe I'm not playing games at all because I will focus more on, you know, life. People should not dwell in these matters though, no one can see into the future. What do we know, maybe all Windows and Mac computers will disappear and there will be only some computer that is not game compatible?

Well, fine, if you don't see we won't have any problems with trusting in consumer rights all over the world, and you have not even grasped the concept of intellectual property, I can't even start a discussion about this, let alone about internet becoming as much of a thing as electricity.

So I'll just stop bothering you with my naive and blind ways of being a loyal mindless sheep with no intelligence of her own, since you apparently only came back to those boards anyway to bother people about this Steam that will burn everyones children, steal their churches and kidnap their crops. That way we'll save your nerves, my amoeba matter and the mods' attention.