So, I've loved The Elder scrolls series (ES2-4), and Fallout 3 (all add-ons for all, except mothership for FO3). About a week ago, I heard of Fallout: New Vegas, so there wasn't any decision to make-- I simply bought it. Due to work issues and time constraints, I purchased it online. What could possibly go wrong? Well, a lot, apparently.

I have the game sitting here at my computer desk, and my heart sank when I read the back: Steam required. but... this is Bethesda. They are one of the major holdouts on unethical business practices. Even EA (with its reputation) released Dragon Age without any such non-sense.

Since the wording was strong on the back, it seems that I don't need to just meet the minimum requirements and purchase the game to play it.. but I also need to have access to an internet connection, and hook my gaming computer up to it... AND to agree to install third party software to my system... AND to register with that third party software's company (and perhaps some other things?)... just to play the game that lay before me (every time I reformat or install an OS). That sounds ridiculous... someone please tell me I've misread something. This cannot be true... can it?

Regardless, how do I ... : 1. install it and play without an internet connection? (as I do not have one), or 2. how do I install it without steam? Basically, how do I install it like I've installed any other game I've ever installed in my life (including the other aforementioned Bethesda games)? And by that I mean legitimately, not cracking steam. Obviously, if I were going to steal the game, I would have downloaded it and installed it offline with a steam crack all for free. I would also be playing it right now without any issues. But, I didn't want to do that. I chose to buy the game and support the authors (et alia). If I didn't care about my rights as a gamer and consumer, I would just crack it with steam now... but that isn't the point. If I cannot play the game I purchased without having to activate it online (or without having to use steam), I cannot ethically give Bethesda (et alia) money (well, let them keep it) to support such unethical business practices. Doing so would help kill the industry, and I would like to do the opposite. If there is indeed no way to both ethically and legally install the game I have already purchased, I am ethically bound to return it for a full refund. Such business practices will never get a penny from me. That being said, any release of a patch to remove such requirement for offline installation would earn Bethesda (et alia) a sale from myself (along with many others). Change your ways back to ethical practices, and you will regain my support. If Bethesda has no intentions of changing its ways with future releases (or FONV), then so be it. I will get my legally-guaranteed refund and live the rest of my life just as before-- without FONV or any subsequent games released under unethical business practices.

1) You can't.
2) You can't.

Well, you can, if you bought the PS3 or 360 versions of the game.

You can't. You do to be connected at install to register and decrypt the game with Steam, after that you can put Steam into offline mod and never be online again.

Maybe take your computer over to a friend with internet.




You can't. See above. Steam is a requirement. This has literally been known for months.

In all of Bethesdas brainless wisdom the ignorance of combining steam is lost on me. I didnt read the fine print when i bought the game, i shouldnt have to, and be forced to install steam. Looks like something some lawyers need to get ahold of.

Steam even touts 30 million users, well duh, when forced to use something against your will there will be alot of it.

I believe that Fallout 3 required Games for windows live, for the saves, original authentication, and DLC DLs and authentications. Which is, in reality much worse then steam. Are you sure you played fallout 3? Only one way you played it without GFWL that I know of legit, and that was via steam.

But whatever floats your boat. Personally I would not be raging about steam, as much as I would about how buggy and unplayable the game is.

Seriously, if you are at all into PC gaming, you should have steam on your computer to begin with.

Starting with a flame. Good move.




On the front of the case. It reads 'Internet connection required for activation'



Lawyers? Nothing they can do. The Steam requirement was announced a long time ago.



Wrong, its because its an esy to use system for purchasing, managing and playing games. Keeps games updated and they have some brilliant sales on. Bought Mafia 2 and got Mafia 1 free.

That's what I was afraid of. This really irks me.

Are there any plans to change that? I know it has been changed before on other games. They've been so good in the past that I'd give them a second chance.

whats the point of buying the hard copy if you need to activate online, not everyone has internet access...

You are going to have to find a new hobby. Internet connection requirements for activation is extremely common already, they aren't going to suddenly disappear, in fact requiring internet activation will be ubiquitous within a year or two. You are even going to see it on consoles (http://www.geek.com/articles/games/valve-is-bringing-steam-to-ps3-20100616/)

It's a Steamworks title, either you use it or you don't play the game, it's really that simple. There's nothing nefarious about it other than the developer chose to use it as their release platform of choice, just like a lot of other AAA titles have. It's a very popular platform for users and mainstream/indie developers, it's the future (digital distribution) and developers generally really like what it has to offer in the area of development, a level of product protection, content delivery and seamless patching.

They aren't going to suddenly revoke the Steam requirement, it's both effective and popular and only growing more so. I suppose you can choose to fight that future, but you are going to lose to the majority who don't mind it and many who even like what Steam offers.

Good luck.

Yeah, that's my point of view too. While I don't have the numbers, I'm sure that the % who joined Steam because they were forced to (to play Half-Life 2, Fallout: New Vegas or any other Steamworks game) is far larger than the % who joined because they wanted to do a digital purchase instead of a disc.


That's wrong. It didn't require GFWL for the saves or for any activations. The only thing you needed GFWL for was if you wanted the achievements or if you bought the DLCs online instead of the retail releases or the GOTY release. While GFWL installed during the installation, it was purely optional if you wanted to activate the game or not, you could play the game without entering the GFWL key code. So in this case it sounds like you're the one who didn't play Fallout 3.


Nope, no plans. Sorry.

Well, fortunately your info about fallout 3 is not correct (if it had been, I would have never had it to begin with *insert unethical business practice speech here*). But then again, it could be because I use XP for gaming (and I didn't DL the DLC, I purchased them in their physical, boxed retail form). I used Vista for a while (before I got FO3), but there were so many bugs with vista itself in games (not to mention all the DX10 problems), I went back to XP which played them all perfectly without any problems. My gaming computer is not connected to the internet (because of various security issues with windows OS's), just occasionally to LAN's for parties.

Bugs I can deal with. In time they will be fixed. In this way I am patient. Seriously, though,. With games this big and complicated, I have accepted significant release bugs as a fact of life.

I have to agree with the OP, on-line activation is one thing, but forcing us to download steam and open accounts with them just to play an off-line game is very poor form.

I for one won't be buying any more Bethesda games if this is how they will be released, and like the OP I have all 4 of the Elder Scrolls titles, Fallout 3 and all of it's DLC.

You say protection, and later "effective" (which implies that protection is a part of that). I presume you are talking about the DRM functions? First of all, even if there were no DRM functions, I would not go through steam. I just don't like their policies and model (personal choice). And regarding their DRM (and any and all DRM that has ever existed or will ever exist). It is flawed. DRM just simply does not work. Physical access is root access. Never forget it. It is a cheap marketing ploy that some developers and distributors have fallen for-- nothing more, and nothing less. You are also mistaken by the trend. The trend for many years was toward DRM, but industries are realizing now that it simply does not work, and they are losing far more than they are gaining by attempting DRM. Even Apple dropped it from iTunes. The trend is moving away from DRM. Apparently there are a few holdouts, still. But I'm confident that they will change their ways. It is merely a question of time.

You assume too much, Steam is effective (as a whole) because of what it is. What it IS NOT, is just DRM. If you look at it that way, your view is going to be completely off the mark.

In fact, when referring specifically to the DRM component of Steam, it is arguably easier for the freeloaders to crack, but in doing so you lose they ability to track achievements, get patches delivered, etc. They sacrifice for their illegal hack job, it becomes an inferior experience. That's why it's pretty good at what it does. Steam is a social network, a gaming community, a content delivery system, a connection between developers and gamers, a conduit for updates and hotfixes, a digital store, so on and so on. It's more than "just drm".

Eh, actually more and more are moving to online activations, and away from DRM schemes like securom. Look at what EA is doing on consoles, in most of their games you now have to enter a keycode to unlock multiplayer, or additional content. DRM is not going away. It is changing to be much less obtrusive.

In a perfect world, we would not need anything like DRM. But when even a company like stardock moves to using a form of online activation the writing is pretty much on the wall.

I go agree that DRM really does not work, But it makes stealing the content much harder to do when it is an online activation. Not impossible, just harder in most cases. And really, all it is meant is to deter the game being available day one, even if they delay it being pirated one day they feel that will be an increase in sales.

I don't like DRM, But I can live with something like steam.

And btw, I have no idea what version of fallout 3 you played, but reading the faqs on the fallout 3 pages it states all the DLC and the game had to have GFW to activate No matter how you bought it. That was my experience with it. So not sure, maybe you are not in the US?

I am going for a long shot here. I think Bethesda released a retail version of the game so you could install it on steam without downloading it. It states on the box that a Internet connection and free steam account is required to activate the game. I know it's in small print and could be missed. Do I think it's a big deal? Not really. I don't know all the statistics but I'm willing to bet most gamers have Internet connection. Basically you are the minority demanding everything change for you. You can't always please everyone. Bethesda thought it was in their best interest to release the game on steam only. Yes it's third party software, but it's well known and well used third party software. Are they doing something unethical? No! People get a bug up their !@# about how they OWN their software. Thats not entirely true. Technically, when you buy a game or any software you are paying for a license to use the game, you don't own it. I personally like steam. It is a convenient way to keep all your games. The technical problems with Fallout New Vegas is another issue entirely that needs to get fixed.

Yes, you should.Developers could put a line in the EULA saying that you give them all rights to everything you own, and 90% of people will skip right over it and click accept. It is important to know what you are agreeing to because just as much as it is a method to protect their butts, it is also there to protect yours.


Have Steam, sure, but it should be optional. The games i have on Steam I got because I chose to get on steam. When I buy a hard copy, I chose not to buy it through steam. And yes, I know no amount of complaint will change that NV requires steam, but it doesn't make me any less annoyed by it.

Steam is becoming like Apple.

Exactly. Online activation is most definitely not going away, as I said, it's even coming to consoles. If you need proof that's certainly not 'going away', I'd say that's pretty definitive.

At least in FO3 w GFWL you could Quicksave and had an Autosave function - you DON'T in Steam

Very true, regardless if you consider it to be good or bad, it is the way the game industry is heading. Personally, I think it's a bit unfortunate, and not too pleased that Valve started this whole online activation thing with Half-Life 2. But I've bought 3 games this year that required online activations in some form, and I see no signs of that going down, if anything it will go up a fair bit over the next years.


I got the US version of Fallout 3 CE. While GFWL is installed during the installation process, you never need to log into GFWL in the game and activate it with the key code, to play the game. You can just ignore the ingame GFWL window and proceed to play.

For Fallout 3, GFWL did not work as DRM. It was just something for achievements and online purchase of DLCs. Instead the game launcher used a normal Securom disc check.

Well, then consider me wrong then:) Now I wish I had known that sooner. If I ever play it again, I will be sure to ignore it or use the mod that removes it:)

It's just a bug right now with steam cloud, and it will be fixed.
Personally, I find being able to download F:NV anywhere and have my saves come with me better than using GFWL

My personal problem with steam, is that I typically have trouble verifying my games with it. I bought new vegas today in a store, and I still havent played it because for like 5 hours all I get is "The Steam servers are currently too busy to handle your request. Please try again in a few minutes." I get this message so often its not funny, and since I'm australian, and have like no downloads, I need to buy my games on hardcopies, so I just wish Steam would lift its form and at least upgrade its servers, and maybe the companies could not force me to link my game with steam, im fine playing my game in steam, but when it has to get onto the server that never seems to give me any access, therefore making it so I cant play my game, I mean, you buy the actually disc, you shouldnt have to wait on some stupid third party site to give you permission to use it.

It really boggles my mind that people have such a problem with Steam (or at least the idea of Steam). Steam is NOT unethical. It is an attempt to protect their intellectual property rights (GASP). Blame all the pirates out there over the last 20 years that have caused third party DRM solutions like Steam to be necessary. Get off your high horse people