I know a store that still has FONV on the shelves near me. They have 5-6 of them still for the PC. It is a Wal-Mart.

I resemble that remark, but seriously they would likely say "The console versions are good for those that lack Internet." not to say there is anything with offering a console version but for me the big draw of Bethesda's RPGs is the modability & I svck horribly with a Gamepad so it's PC or no way & the control that Steamworks takes from me makes a "Buy on Sight" game into a deffinate "PASS" as it basically makes the game unusable.

Yes, this is true. But I refuse to buy a console for just 1 game. Nor should they require people to do it, if they put options they should make it an option where everyone that wishes to play the game can play the game with what they have available. Now granted, I would not want to see them make a Commodore 64 version of the game or anything, but my aunt still uses one. So....

Then you are very much in the minority.

I was at the midnight launch in a very long line, saw hundred+ copies going out. My friends at work have the boxes set, the Collectors Edition was quite nice.

While I feel for your suffering, it would be better to stick to the facts - millions of Boxed copies of FNV were sold.

No connection at all will be a problem, no question about that. Downloading gigabytes of info with a poor connection is pain too, i've been through that

Although, assuming you have ANY connection and get the game retail you don't need to download the the whole game - just to install it from the DVD and activate it. After that you don't need any internet connection at all couse steam has a offline mode that works fine.

Miax, guess it wasn't popular here then. Didn't hear anything about a Midnight launch, and I never saw any marketing for it.

But if they make the game require Steamworks then it needs to be online, right? I have never bought a game that requires a drm, so I am new to it. Yes, I just wish that they would go back to the disk check like was in Oblivion. That just makes things so much more simple, yes I understand the whole piracy thing, but there has to be a better way than drm.

DRM doesn't prevent piracy, that's been proven quite handily over the past 20 years. What DRM stops is the lucrative second hand games market, but they won't admit that to you.

It only requires internet connection to install the steam client and activate the game. After that you can switch the client to offline mode and you will be allright

1. And you can move the game out of the steam directory after install and it still works.

2. No it shouldn't

3. No it shouldn't. So you seriously want to get Skyrim but don't want the later released patches because they are working through steam? Makes sense :rolleyes: .

4. People who are using it while gaming? And I only used these as an example because both these processes use fairly minimal resources when compared to other tasks and used explorer as an example because it uses almost no resources. My quesiton to you is, do you try and cancel the process of explorer when gaming to allow for a higher fps?




Chill out, its an amazing client that provides many features and is not intrusive.

to me it seems so simple, go after the "badguys" & not punish the people paying for the product.



Isn't the initial patching mandatory as well?

Unfortunately that is life, the many have to pay for the transgressions of the few.

Try? Try nothing, I have. Also I normally empty working sets to get maximum RAM. It's amazing how much memory programs are using that they don't actually need. I have gotten Windows 7 down to 800mb of memory used through closing unneeded programs and trimming memory on programs. Also, explorer as a whole normally uses 40mb of RAM, antivirus programs use more than that.

I'm sure they will not be requiring Steam to play the game. You will be able to buy the retail copy and install and play all without even having the internet available. If they make a single player game require the Internet, even for an "insignificant" portion such as game verification, it will prevent people from buying the game. It may not be a lot but it will be some. It will also make some of those same people download the steam free pirated version probably during the first week of release.

i hope it doesnt require it, steam doesnt even work for me anymore

I wouldn't mind it. It would help with official patches. I say this as a happy Steam user for over 6 years. Yea, it svcked on Half-Life 2 release night, but besides that I don't have any complaints. It helps moving from computer to computer- so I can leave the disk safely at home. Although Steam would be superfluous for a single player game, I wouldn't mind it.

They do this because if someone did actually have an error with the connectivity to steam because of their internet, Valve could be sued for large sums of money. I laugh how you act as though Valve is Activision, but in reality is probably the developers which are closest with their community. I mean, Gabe Newell their CEO tries to reply to all emails from fans. People have sent him emails about the dumbest [censored] ever and he has replied, and it isn't just a stock reply like "thank you for your email". I've seen cases of people emailing Gabe for an autogrpah to give to their brother for his birthday and Gabe replies with an email saying he will send it, then in the mail he recieves a free limited edition Portal mousepad signed by Gabe. Not only this but Valve keep updating the steam servers to allow more traffic, they keep updating the client to make it as customisable and user firendly as possible as well as allowing for its users to keep in touch with friends.



You can go to the steam powered support forum or email the support if this does happen. It isn't like they just feel like deleting or banning your account, its more for a backup just in case any situation does require this.



Umm... It isn't like Valve just goes around banning and deleting peoples accounts for [censored] and gigs. If you hack into their system to steal games you can expect for your account to be terminated permanently without warning.

There is no legitimate reason to despise steam the way you do. The excuse of install paths has been busted as you can change the directory your game is located in. The excuse of hard-disk space is laughable, since even 10 years ago that wasn't a hefty request. The excuse for updating has also been shown to be wrong as you can turn these updates off except for on install which shouldn't be a problem because I assume you are getting the game on release and not a month or two after. And the excuse for another password and username to remember is just a pathetic attempt to hate just for the reason of hating. Personally I don't think steam should be required for Skyrim, but to be honest if it is required I don't care. I do understand people don't want it simply because they don't want it, but your blatant hate is unwarranted.

Pshhhhht. What's a little draconic DRM to someone born of Dragons' blood itself?

At any rate, I love Steam. Love it to bits. If only it had a little screen that could show my all my games arranged in a little shelf full of virtual boxes. Then it'd be perfect.

Sorry, but I don't consider required 3rd party bloat, which must be running at all times when you want to play the game, and which must have an internet connection when it decides it wants one, to be "non intrusive".

I do not want the features that Steam provides... they are not all bad, and I can see why some people would want them, but I do not.
I do not want to be forced into an perpetual agreement with someone who is not Bethesda... tell me why I should need to enter into a license agreement with Valve to access and play Bethesda's games? (an agreement that gives me no legal recourse should it be broken for any reason, even if it's Valve's fault)
I do not want to install and run a 3rd party application... regardless of how small it is, it is still my machine and I don't want it running on it.

How is this "not intrusive"? Just because you're willing to put up with it and ignore its downsides doesn't mean everyone else is too.

Umm you are acting as if Valve are forcing Bethesda to use Steam. If steam is required it is Bethesda's choice and you shouldn't be complaining about Steam, but rather about Bethesda. Steam is non-intrusvie because after you use it to activate the game you don't need to update anything, you don't need to accept it's other services, you don't need to be online to use it after the initial install, you can completely remove the news updates, you can set it not to open on startup, you can turn off client and game updates, you can set your games library as your default window and it does not store any of your information online unless you accept.
It uses almost no memory, the most I have got it to use when gaming was about 40 megabytes and on average is around 30 and drops to around 13 when not playing a game through it, which is generally less than Explorer. I am not ignoring its downsides, because in my book it only really has two, the required internet connection on install, which only effects people with absolutely no internet connection. The other problem is regional pricing on some games.

You're not going to convince me that an invasive 3rd party application isn't an awful idea.

Re: updates on install. What if Bethesda does a repeat of Oblivion, and only the first CS can properly do a certain feature? How do you purpose to deal with that if you have to reinstall but you don't have a choice at which version you have installed because Steam won't let you install it without patching?

Oh and by regional pricing do you mean where Valve changes the $ to a ￡ or Euro without lowering the price, resulting in games upwards of 50% higher in some markets?

Indeed, & let's not forget the FO3 1.5 patch fiasco, those on Steam didn't have an option to reinstall & not use the botched patch, to me it's VERY important to to have version control over my SP games.

You shouldn't be hating Steam, you should be hating Bethesda for forcing you to use it if you dislike a third party client.

If that happens with the install then simply mod it or get the game early so you don't have a chance of that happening or after buying the game back it up on an external harddrive and copy and replace the updated version if it does happen.

Regional pricing is where the company that is publishing the game (not Valve) sells the game on the steam store with prices dependant on a cutomer's location. So for example if the Australian Dollar is worth $1USD and the game is sold on the US Steam Store for $68 but is then sold on the Australian Steam Store for $99, this is the choice of the publisher, not Valve.

I've noticed a pattern with Steam. Constant workarounds needed.

Also, I never said I wouldn't hate Bethesda too. But it's not like Valve would be guilt free, it's their crappy program, not Bethesda's.

Steam is not a crappy program, I understand you may not want its services but that doesn't make it crappy. Hate Bethesda, you have no reason to hate Valve.

What do you mean workarounds needed? The only one I have noticed is the changed install paths which isn't complicated at all. Going into settings and changing something from "on" to "off" is not a workaround.

I'm beginning to think you just love to hate.