50. Started new game. Saved my character named Z (don't waste time on face), exited the game. Activated the first esm. Loaded the game, saved, exited. I repeated this activate-load-save-exit sequel with all mods unmergeable on Bashed Patch. When it comes to multy-components like MMM, FCOM , Better Cities and so on, I turn them in one go, like: MMM esm, FCOM_Convergence.esm, FCOM_Convergence.esp and all MMM add-on esps. As for the rest of FCOM ? after I have saved MMM introduction I activate all FCOM plugins and so on.

Ok, another question.

For the multi components, he's saying he turns on all the mmm esm's and esp's in one go, and then all the francesco's in one go, and so on and so on ....right? Not all the mmm's, fcom's, etc. in one go....

Also, activating all the FCOM files doesn't seem possible since alot of them rely on mods that aren't activated yet (Knights, Robe trader, Enhanced daedric invasion, etc.) So is it better to activate the FCOM esp that relates to the mod you're activating when you reach it? (IE: activate Knights.esp and FCOM-Knights.esp in one go)

Plus what is saving the MMM introduction exactly?

Thanks!!

No, Blade of Mercy's instructions say to activate all of core FCOM, not MMM separately, not support modules...the "MMM" introduction?

Edit: ...nope, never mind, I still do not know what you meant by that...

50. Started new game. Saved my character named Z (don't waste time on face), exited the game. Activated the first esm. Loaded the game, saved, exited. I repeated this activate-load-save-exit sequel with all mods unmergeable on Bashed Patch. When it comes to multy-components like MMM, FCOM , Better Cities and so on, I turn them in one go, like: MMM esm, FCOM_Convergence.esm, FCOM_Convergence.esp and all MMM add-on esps. As for the rest of FCOM ? [b]after I have saved MMM introduction[/b] I activate all FCOM plugins and so on. After all unmeargeable mods are checked and my game is saved, I activate the Bashed Patch. Thus I have naturally activated load order with minimum conflicts between 200+ mods, well tuned game and the practically best possible performance that could be expected. Then I created my real character, spent a lot of time on her face, left the sewers and enjoyed CTD - free game with huge choice of things to use and do.

I was referring to this.

So all FCOM means mmm, frans, ooo, and warcry? (in my LO)
what about the mods with FCOM esp's added? like knights, robe trader, and such? should they be activated with all the kit and kaboodle mentioned above?
thanks for answering my questions by the way...

Oh, I see. Well, as I said in the last post, do not activate support modules. Those are not part of "core FCOM," hence "support." "Support" mods are patches provided by mods for other mods. The core of FCOM contains three overhauls, so plugins pertaining to those are not "support" plugins. Okay, the MMM thing, Blade of Mercy isolated MMM from FCOM because it can be assume. FCOM only requires the ESM, but that load early and holds the resources, so no worry loading it I guess. However, it still follows the rule that all of the MMM plugins should be activated with FCOM. Not everyone uses MMM optional modules with FCOM, but I think most do now. The instructions say to activate all of MMM when you get to the MMM ESM. That says to me that you can do the same for Fran, so I was wrong in my last post about the FCOM part.

I will have to redo step 50, but it does not hurt to clarify, anyway...
All mods not within narrow FCOM (Fran+OOO+MMM+War Cry+Bob's) are considered optional.
What I do?
Consider all esm turned on one by one.
Turn on all Fran esps and Fran-related FCOM esps on one go; load-save (new expendable char in prison)-exit.
Activate Bob's-load-save-exit.
Activate War Cry-load-save-exit.
Activate OOO esp Load game-save-exit.
Activate FCOM-Convergence esp (only!)-load-save-exit.
Activate all MMM modules I have-load-save-exit
Load Tamriel Travelers - all esps I have-load-save-exit.
load one by one Lost Paladin Of Divines, The Mystery Of Dulan's Cult, Mighty Umbra etc.
Then, when extended FCOM unmergeable modules are on, rebuild Bashed Patch. Load game-save-exit.
Continue to load all other unmergeable mods, when they are on, rebuild bashed patch, load save.
Delete temporary character, create your permanent one, play.

Ok, this is really cool of you to explain. So only the FCOM esp is necessary and not the esm?

No...Activate the entire mod once you reach the ESM. I cannot remember the exact order.

Fran ESM one at a time
get to MMM ESM, load all of MMM (ESM and ESPs)
get to OOO ESM, load all of OOO (ESM and ESPs)
get to FCOM ESM, load all of Core FCOM (ESM and ESPs) that are left (Fran plugins, WarCry and FCOM ESMs and ESPs)
continue with the rest as you have

Awesome, I really appreciate this. I understand now. thanks for your patience. cheers.

Thank you. I should clarify this in my guide as well.

Greetings,

Following this guide has helped me out a great deal, especially with all the extra help I've gotten on the forums. Barring a few configuration options I had wrong, and a missing patch or two, I have been able to play for several hours at a time without CTDs.

I have, however, had to accept the harsh reality that my machine is not quite the Oblivion beast I thought it was. In my case, I think I'm being hampered by an older AMD X2, and probably the HDD (it's SATA2, but it's getting some age on it). So, even after tweaking as much as I could, I realized that if I really want to play the game w/ reasonable FPS and few and far between crashes, I needed to cut back on my build a little. I decided that as much as I love Better Cities, it's just asking too much of my system's resources. So, I went back and took out Better Cities, as well as Blood and Mud, and all the patches they needed.

Great, but what does that have to do with this guide, right? Well, as I was going to take Better Cities out, I wondered if there were any special considerations to be made. Besides load order, installation order has been shown to be important as well. Most mods have readmes which tell you how to uninstall them. But are there other things to consider w/ an FCOM build? I can tell you that after taking B&M out, Bravil (architecture) was missing most of it's exterior meshes. This was easy to fix, but it got me thinking about this and I thought maybe it would be worth a post.

Alternatively, do you folks know if anyone has made a guide to taking things back out of your build? It may be that it's too general a topic to be applied to the complexities of individual mods. But just as this guide is great for helping you get set up, I have to wonder if there isn't another guide to help you "take it back down a notch or two", so to speak. I could be wrong, but it seems like there is almost as much potential to really hose things by uninstalling as installing (almost).

That's it... just something that crossed my mind. BTW, after taking Better Cities out, my game is really runing well. This is more like what I expected when I started following this guide in the first place.... awesome!

Thanks again for all the help,
veg

My guide covers updating saves. It is not a difficult process, and there are not that many things to remember. There are no special extra steps you need to take to remove BC from your load order. If you have missing meshes after installing a mod, it is often because you did not uninstall the plugin expecting the meshes to be there, did not update the bashed patch, or the resources expected by another plugin in your load order are not present. Mods that have extra steps to be taken in order to remove them should have them stated in the ReadMe.

That's cool, just a thought I had. FWIW, I don't think it was Better Cities that caused the missing meshes. I installed that using the BAIN installer. No, I think it was probably Blood & Mud. For one thing, that one was an OMOD, not a BAIN installer. For another, the only meshes missing when the removal of BC/B&M was done were Bravil architecture meshes. All other cities look fine. I assume that B&M overwrote the Vanilla Bravil meshes when it installed, and then when it uninstalled it took the new ones with it, leaving me with puple bridges and facades. Using FormIDFinder it was pretty trivial to put them back, but it started me thinking on the subject of uninstalling, and so on.

Anyway, thanks again for the input, and for everything you do to help people get their games running (and keep them runing! )
veg

Your (un)installation error is part of the reason why I discourage mixing installation methods, especially if you are not a savvy mod user. When you installed B&M it did not overwrite any vanilla meshes. Those are packed in BSAs. However, if you installed BC and BC's B&M support on top of it, when you removed B&M you also removed the BC meshes. Also, OBMM can ONLY keep track of files it installs. It would not "know" not to uninstall meshes being used by a mod that is installed outside of OBMM. You should be more conscious of file conflicts (overlapping files) among the mods you use.

Again, this subject does not pertain to this guide. I guess a new thread will be needed soon anyway at this point...

I apologize again. I was just responding to something you said about my installation. Thing is, I unpacked and PyFFI'd my Vanilla Oblivion meshes per this guide, so unless I am still misunderstanding something, it _did_ overwrite them in my data structure. Further, I am not sure what you would suggest as far as mixing installation methods. Some mods come as OMODs, some as BAIN, some as manual, and still others as EXEs. Are you suggesting one break them all down into a common format (BAIN) before instaling them? Personally, I would not do that. Just getting this game set up and relatively bug-free took a week. Also, I have never heard anyone say you should not use BAIN installers and OBMM installers in the same build. Did I miss something somewhere? Finally, I was very concious of file conflicts. I read every conflict report generated by OBMM and Wrye Bash. I'm afraid the only thing I could have done in the B&M install was say no to the overwrites, but then I would have had Vanilla meshes in B&M, and that definitely isn't right. So I kinda had to let the files get overwritten.

I was just trying to be helpful. Sorry for screwing up the thread (again).

You will have to do more installation corrections using a random mix of installation methods, as you have just experience. Converting OMODs takes no time at all. Right-click on the OMOD (in OBMM) and choose "convert to archive." Manual installation mods are easier to install with BAIN as they are manually. What do you even mean by "manual?" BAIN archives are regular archives as well. If you are talking about simple mods, those are already BAIN-friendly. Those types of packages can also be zipped into an OMOD and installed without much consideration as well.

I did not know that you had PyFFI-ed the vanilla meshes (and left them in the Data folder.) Many people repack them into BSAs, and, that aside, there are sill version of the files in the BSAs. (I hope you did not remove the BSAs entirely.) What do you mean you would have had to say no to overwrites? If you are using multiple installation methods, plan the installation of overlapping mods beforehand. You should have the PyFFI-optimized vanilla meshes packed in a BAIN archive or OMOD for reinstallation should the need arise. They should always be installed first. Next, you should install the mods that do not contain the support packages, in this case, B&M. Then, install BC on top of it. That way you do not have to worry about overwrites in OBMM. Plus, you should reinstall BC on top of B&M, in the even that you do make a mistake in the installation order. There is no reason that you "had to let the files get overwritten." I am all about helping others, so there is not a problem with sharing your ideas on this. However, make a new thread about it or post about it in my site's thread if you want because that is one of the areas it covers in detail.

You are still a newer user, so I do not expect you to understand all of the overlapping that occurs during mod installation (whether talking about the packages themselves or the plugins.) I have finished revamping my site and managed to rewrite a complete general guide to modded Oblivion setup. Of course, that required doing an extensive explanation of installation order. I would love to hear your feedback, especially if it is incoherent or even whether or not you think it useful.

I will definitely take a look at your site. Every time I've checked it it's been better and better.

What I mean by "manual" are mods that are not BAIN archives, and also do not have OMOD conversion data, and that also have a directory structure that can not simply be OMOD'd. I realize that there are alternative ways to install manual archives like BAIN and OBMM... What I was trying to say is there is not _one_ way to do this. If you settled on, say BAIN, for your installation method, you'd have to convert all the OMOD-only mods to archives, extract everything from the executable mods and get them in shape for BAIN, and finally do whatever needs to be done to the remaining "manually" installed mods to get them ready. I just wonder how many people actually go through all of this. (You're going to tell me you do, aren't you? )

In this thread it is recommended _not_ to create a new BSA out of your PyFFI'd meshes, so I did not do that. I _did_ OMOD them. But again, the problem wasn't replacing the meshes (that was easy! there were only about a dozen, which is why I just replaced them rather than deactivating and reactivating my mesh OMOD). And darn it all, I mis-spoke on the overwrite dialog. It asks if you want to be notified. I always say yes, and then manually approve (or not) each file when it asks if it should be overwritten. I should have been more clear.

It is true, I have not been dealing with modded Oblivion all _that_ long (though, as I stated before, I am returning to the game from a hiatus... I am not a complete noob). But I really am a software developer, and I am familiar with directory structures, and overlapping program modules, and how files get overwritten in an file system. Oblivion presents its own challenges though, to be sure, and troubleshooting it can be incredibly daunting. That's where the experience of others comes in the most handy!

Take care. I'll leave this thread alone for a while now.
veg

Nice guide, I'll use some of your mod suggestions with my current wip build.

There are quite a few quest mods, how do they effect overall performance? Do lots of quest mods have a big impact on CPU usage? or hardly any?

Thanks

Most quests do not have an particular performance impact. If a quests adds a lot of NPCs to a particular area, as in the case of Bravil and Blood & Mud, then that area's performance may be lower. In general, however, quests tend not to have too much of a performance impact on their own. It depends on the quests you use. The only other example of quests really impacting performance in an existing area is adding a lot of mods that add quest lines involving the IC, which are not few. Outside of that, I cannot think of much to worry about. Even with those few cases, the quests are probably worth the trade in performance. It is up to you really...Some of the Lost Spires locations are pretty CPU-heavy, but, again, the quest is worth a few stuttery dungeons.

I cant seem to find origin of the mage guild 6.2 or the OOO compatibility patch, PES have V6 but no OOO patch

Any Idea where I can get it?

Thanks

Search the forum for Dragon Caption's original release tread(s). Find there link to their site. Register. Download.
Alternatively go to TESNexus. Find any of DC mods, check mirrors which will again take you to their site which has the latest versions of their mods.

Hey Blade of Mercy,

Lol, I had just sweated blood installing my mods based on my experience after getting the latest updated files of my beloved base mods. And I was thinking, yeah I should try FCOM now, since I had just got my head around Wyre Bash (still am tbh) as I exclusively used OBMM. So 1 week later, ran BOSS and did as advised (thanks BOSS) all is going well bar one purple texture, and I knew that would be because of an archive invalidation step I forgot to set automatically with OBMM on some dude. Game was going ok, only 1 error in the landscape with the UL stuff upon exiting the sewer - D'oh, need to check the readme!!

So at this stage I hadn't installed FCOM. Well, i now stumble across this thread. Awesome. Really awesome. Think I have to do a new fresh FCOM install now, or maybe just a fresh install following this guide FCOM or not (i'll be using the FCOM components of Frans and MMM; to me it makes a lot of sense. Thanks especially for providing the links, I've already patched my OB exe file for 4gig ram usage.

A really handy thread for us old timers and new beginners. Keep em coming guys and continuing to optimize the installation. Very well done, and thanks for sharing.

-Coors916 :toughninja:

Howdy, Coors916!
You are most welcome, my friend - bearing in mind I have enjoyed your Shinobi mod for almost 3 years! Yeah, where has the time gone? Reinstalling and playing I suppose
Yes, I think that you will need clean re installation of Oblivion - everybody says so.
But you know the drill, and you know very well that the real fun is not to play Oblivion but to tinker with your load order and curse the CTDs
With this step ladder I promise you very stable game. Every step is personally tested. My average time between CTDs is about 5 hours except when I hit bad respawn cell but 3 days waiting in the testinghall take care of this.
Errr... any chance for continuation of Shinobi? Or version2? Or 1.5 at least? So that the cool weapons and armor sets are bit refreshed?
Anyway, buddy, terrific you are still around and if I've had the chance to save you some precious time with installation, would only make me happy.
Live long and prosper, as a friend of mine from the planet Volcan used to say

Indeed! Well, to let you know, I've got ver 1.5 in my load order, and as soon as I can get a stable install, it will bring 1.5 closer to uploading Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread, and I'll be needing a beta tester as well? My thread is sitll active, we'll continue the convo' there.

And I'll post in here if I get stuck

Cheers Blade of Mercy!

-Coors916 :ninja:

Well Blade of Mercy,

What can I say (wipes tear). It's been four years, and thanks to your guide, I probably have my most stable install of OB :tops: with my absolute favourite base mods working ok!! :celebrate: It is unbelievable! I am so happy.

Obviously, this pertains well to other things now I'm not looking at land tears and missing textures. (did see one wtf error mesh, but I think it is from Frans-usually I find ti is) - unrelated (Vilverin). So yeah, I think I was also very guilty of mass mod loading, and I consider myself a pretty savvy mod user excl Bain. But Wyre Bash is awesome, although I still rely heavily on OBMM for now, I now my mods and what they edit/overwrite,.

Your guide has been indispensable; thanks. And to fellow gamers, please follow as close to the letter of Blade of Mercy's well thought out guide if you do happen to come to this thread. It's painstakingly tempting to skip some steps, but it's really not worth it.

-Coors916 :toughninja:

Yeah I'm glad I went through with this. Some people may recall me being the unfortunate rare type with a seemingly perfect load order but getting crashes left and right. That doesn't happen anyone thanks to this(and tomlongs compiled information). And wow @ OSR. I don't get stutters anymore.

I was just thinking how far we've come. Those days where there was no such thing as BOSS and such.