Hmmm... don't see what is outdated...

12. Installed OOO 1.33 topped up with Optimized OOO 1.33 meshes, then 1.34 beta5, topped with Optimised mashes 1.34 beta 5. this one is still upto date as no newer version of OOO than 1.34 beta5
Installed Shivering OOO, Installed OMOBS 1.0 and the optional esp too. This also is up to date.
13. Installed MMM BSA and MMM 3.7.3 RC3 esm and esp files using TheNiceOne's OMOD Installer and am keeping an eye for updates there is no newer version of MMM updates than 3.7 beta 3
14. Installed bare minimum FCOM Beta 9.9 and the latest Unofficial FCOM Updates by Corepc using TheNiceOne's OMOD Installer still valid IMO
15. Rebuilt Bashed patch and tested as per Shikishima advice below.
16. Bob's Armory 1.1, Loth's Blunt, KD Circlets for OOO and the relevant FCOM patches
17. Installed War Cry 1.8 and WC Patch 1.85b and FCOM patch

19. Pyffied COBL 1.72 and related patches including Item Interchange 0.78 I have put this down as per Shikishimas suggestions for stabla FCOM
However you are right that it should be after MMM in logical order.

FCOM and MMM installation instructions always say: Fran, OOO, MMM, Bob's, OWC, FCOM.
Where am I wrong?

From #1 post of MMM thread.

I have moved COBL from 19 to 12.
Although I agree with you that adding COBL too late is a bit farfetched, this was recommended by Shikishima. Shikishima is right that COBL changes a lot of things and makes things more... volatile.
One should try first FCOM without COBL, paying attention to stability and only when one has enough idea what it is like, only then add COBL and dcheck for performance again.
However, what is a safe thing to do: Install it when it is logical but activate it after basic FCOM as Shikishima advises..

However, I do not agree DLC and UOMP should be installed before FCOM.
My reasons are:

DLC and UOMP have nothing to do with base FCOM. The players must rty the full BASIC FCOM before they add anything to their game.
Why? Because running smooth FCOM is more important than Spell Tomes for instance. or Horse Armor or thieves den and so on.
I play save game, enjoy thousands of spell scrolls from LAME and don't cry about Spell Tomes.
My game has dozens of places better that Frostcrag or Vile Lair, I prefer agile Slof's horses than stuttering armored ones.

Thus, I agree with Shikishima: fix FCOM first, than cautiously add what does not affect my performance.
If I have nice FCOM game and then my horses begin to stutter after I added DLC Horse armor, I remove DLC Horse Armor and carry on playing FCOM. With all 600+ AlienSlof's horses. Without armor. Safe. Without CTD.

FCOM is a matter of perception. This is my perception as how to build it safely.

Well, it's not just a matter of perception. Since MMM has moved to a BSA, and has changed in that it no longer shares resources with OOO, Corepc states that the install order now matters in a way it did not before. Shikishima's advice which you take into account was also written before these updates to MMM.

Again, I understand that your list in the first post reflects an order that worked fine for an older version (of FCOM as a whole), but with the update to MMM and uFCOM has come new installation instructions.

Once again, many people are having difficulties with their FCOM installations, and I do think that at least adding a warning to your first post would be prudent. Something like: As of the recent update of MMM to include a .bsa, FCOM install order guidelines have changed. Please see the current FCOM and MMM threads for info.

gothemasticator

Have you read post #2 item 7 recently?
I knew I couldn't miss such an important advice as Corepc's

I did read it. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I just noticed a few warnings you had added within your fifty steps posts, such as the one that makes note of a plugin that's now deactivated, and I thought a note like that at the beginning of the FCOM install steps would be helpful - simply making note of important updates since those particular versions were installed.

Hey, it's your list.

gothemasticator

EDIT: BTW, I didn't come here just to nitpick. I've just installed my new full version of Windows 7 (since the RC is due to start self-destructing next weekend), and I've taken the opportunity to completely rebuild my Oblivion mod setup. So, I've been reading your very helpful list for pointers and such. That's why this has come up. Because to incorporate the new MMM and uFCOM stuff I have to make some adjustments within your list for myself. Thought it would be helpful for others as well.

gtm

Ah, now I get your idea - you want Corepc's suggested installation order to be stuck before and not after the steps... well, that makes sense.
Thanks.

And no, this is not my list. this is OUR list.

Once again I have to add apologies for the current http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1075069 readme being out of date.
There's an update ready to be posted just as soon as the links on the FCOM Homepage and the current FCOM installation instructions and versions that are found on TESNexus, PES and other places are updated.
In the interim please follow this as a recommended install order if your intention is to use any version after 9.9 beta

For compatibility reasons with the MMM BSA it's now important in which order some mods are installed:
Recommended order:

Unofficial Oblivion Patch
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch(if applicable)
DLC's + Patches(if applicable)
Francesco's 4.5
OOO version 1.33 full patched to OOO 1.34 beta5
Oblivion WarCry patched to 1.085b
Bob's Armory 1.1
Armamentarium and Armamentarium Artifacts(optional)
Martigen's Monster Mod 3.7b3
COBL(optional)
COBL Races(optional)
FCOM 9.9 beta + supported add-ons(add-ons optional)
Body Replacement mods (Roberts, Exnem. EVE etc)(optional)
Texture replacers(optional)

To complete FCOM, install the UFCOM files, overwriting where prompted.

Not trying to hijack the thread Blade, just hoping to add a little clarification.

There seems to be a problem with the original instructions. If your total number of mods exceeds the maximum, you cannot enable them all one by one before finally enabling the Bashed Patch (which, as far as I understand, enables you to deactivate mods merged into it). Now, what should one do if Oblivion loads with all non-mergeable mods OK but does not with them + Bashed Patch (including the rest of the mods merged)? How's one to test them to find the bad one? Presumably, it's one of the merged mods that is at fault, but you cannot load them all without running over 255...

Or, perhaps, it is the Bashed Patch that can go bad? FCOM instructions seem to imply that one can enable pretty much anything else in it besides the required Leveled List and Merge Patches. Is that right?

What *IS* the limit on mods anyway?

Personally, while I enjoy the idea of having so many choices, I don't see why a number of these modlets, especially the FCOM optional ones, haven't been combined into a single scripted plugin file with an in-game config menu to turn the various parts on or off as desired.

Right now my load order has over 144 files in it, most of that from the FCOM install.

Another thing that is bugging me..instead of 'merging' the files one at a time, why couldnt BASH be programmed to GRAB all those 'disable and merge' files, do a checklist to ensure they are the right ones, then present the user with an *OPTION* to STUFF them all into *ONE* big plugin? Literally a new .esp that contains all the elements of each individual plugin?

My load order has in excess of 25 files that arent even ACTIVE, but are, rather, 'merged', and having BASH convert all 25 into one massive .esp file with dependencies would be an awesome way to reduce my load order.

Yes, I do realize I can supposedly do this myself, but my knowledge of merging and other stuff is so limited, I really have no idea how to figure out what I can combine with what else without ending up with an .esp that causes the game to explode

Im a fair modder...but when it comes to the code based deep inner workings of these things...forget it.

254+Oblivion.esm. Merged/deactivated mods don't count toward the limit, you can have plenty of those in there and they don't count at all. Only activated (ticked) mods count.

Don't forget the 375-400 limit on ESMs, ESPs and BSAs that can reside in the Data Folder before causing problems. Wrye or some other tech-geek had a name for it but I can't remember now.

"Espm thrashing" is the common term, I believe.

All good things come to an end and this tread is approaching its own end.
Soon it will die of old age (200 years) and will be closed.

So, my question to the public is: Should there be second, updated tread with set of FCOM Installing/Activating/Ordering recommendations or not?
I mean, I have no feedback if it has been helpful and instructive or redundant.
Please tell me so that I know if I should prepare updated info for another round.

Thanks
The Blade

right now it's probably the most useful and informative thread around. this one's a keeper!

OK, then we'll keep it alive and kickin'.

Of course when it comes to starting the new one, we'll polish it a bit so that there are no broken steps... to prevent trip/fall accidents and insurance claims

Please keep up the good work.
One question regarding step 5: Wouldn't it be better to install the Stutter Remover at the end, when you can really tell the difference?

I want to first give my tardy thanks for this thread, and add my hope you continue to update and refine it. :goodjob:

Yes, please continue this topic in a new thread...it's been very helpful in preparing for my new Oblivion install.

I hadn't played/modded Oblivion in about 6 months. Your thread was pretty much the first one that caught my attention when I came back to the game.
It was a good place to catch up on some of the things that had changed over that 6 months. As well as providing an invaluable layout of what many of us have been trying to accomplish for some time. A stable Modblivion! So yah, this thread should remain updated with the changes that occur with FCOM etc... if you decide that you need a break at any point, I'm sure there are plenty of people here that would be willing to manage the thread for you during your absence. I for one would be willing.

I'd like to see this thread continue. It's very handy to link people to who need a comprehensive introduction to things like cleaning, PyFFI-ing, etc. Some input from me on what could be changed (or not) a little for the new first post:

• Updated FCOM instructions (You mentioned this. I second it.)
  
• Retain Shikishima's alternate advice.
  
• Either remove or explain the last two steps. There really doesn't seem to be much reason behind them, and, as some poster has noted already, it's not clear how to use the "one at a time" advice when dealing with mergeable plugins or interrelated groups (like FCOM) which require the bashed patch to work. Not to mention Item Interchang which will give you a missing masters warning until merged into the bashed patch.

And, you do have Shikishima's note that this is not new-user friendly right at the top, which I think is good. However, I would suggest going so far as to group the components and utilities into user-level groups. Like so:
Beginner
OBMM
Intermediate
Wrye Bash
Advanced
PyFFI

I would order them based on how hard most users tend to find them the first time as well as the potential to screw up your game.

gothemasticator

I also want to see this thread continued. It's a very helpful resource (right up there with bg's guide threads and Psymon's Bain package thread).

I also agree with literally everything gothemasticator just posted.

Ditto.


Hard to Keep with the current info tho....and will this thread have ...FCOM in the title.....lol hate typos!! cause i don't know what FCM+++ is??


Smile...heheh

I've seen Spectral Reavers before lvl 20. They seem to be a tougher version og Ghostly and Spectral Warriors.

Playing more than 2-3 hours isn't healthy anyway. :grad: