You do not have to back up the meshes BSA unless you are going to do the recreate BSA method. Nothing will touch the BSA unless you do it. Go with BSA redirection (default in Wrye Bash and OBMM.) Optimize the meshes, pack them up into their own file. Use OBMM's "Reset BSA Timestamps" function (Utilities --> Archive Invalidation) any time you install BSAs and the data files will always have priority. If the timestamps are okay, if you just install the optimized meshes into your data folder, you will be good to go.

"pyffied", what does this mean?

The mods have been run through the python NIF optimizer http://pyffi.sourceforge.net/. --http://www.oblivionmodwiki.com/index.php/PyFFI

I am about to make a topic with links to a number of PYFFI mesh uploads by various users.

does this improve performance
?

It can help a great deal (if you know what you are doing.) Properly optimized meshes can make a huge difference, especially if your system is suffering a little for FPS. Fortunately, a few users and mod authors have PYFFI meshes for a number of mods already. Hopefully, the number continues to increase.

I would love to see a post like this. It would be very helpful since I am unfamiliar with this process or any pre-compiled modules/meshes.

Is it possible to pack the Optimized Vanilla Meshes into a BSA instead?

The mesh patch download gives instructions for recreating the Oblivion BSA. I opted to just use BSA Redirection, and I install all of this stuff with BAIN anyway.

I have the PYFFI'ed files installed, but I can't figure out how to omod them. There isn't anythign besides the .nif files.

So I just copied the data/meshes over and moved onto the next step. Now I am installin the Unofficial Oblivion Patch and it is complaing about TONS of .nif conflicts because they are not associated with an OMOD.

I am all bass-ackwards right now. Can you be kind enough to tell me how I should have done this?

sounds good. will be on the lookout for the masterlist, thanks friend

I started a topic featuring PyFFI: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1014947. (It is the one in my sig.)

I have been following this and the PYFFI Optimized thread very closely. A genuine crash-free game does sound mighty appealing, lol. One question though. What is the verdict on the 'clean mod' option of OBMM? A warning popped up saying that it might delete some files.

When you guys test each mod out one by one, do you run through the entire starter dungeon till you get outside, or just test that mods particular function. Or are all you concerned about is being able to start the game?

I just created OMODs for every mod I want. Now it's install time, but I'm now just finding out about this PyFFI program. Lol. I guess advancement is good, and I'll take all the performance I can get.

With FCOM, Qarls, UL, and other mods my Q6600 @ 3.4GHz, 4GB RAM, and 285GTX get brought to their knees in Oblivion. I'm not sure if it's a conflict or what, but I'm sure some cleaning of esps and optimizing won't hurt me.

Use tes4edit to test each mod functionality, and as for PYFFI see Tomlong's thread for more information.

Cleaning any of the masters or associated esp's for FCOM will break the mod.
I'll emphasize what I said earlier in this thread when it comes to cleaning mods :

Many do not need cleaned, and some that appear "dirty" are designed that way for a reason.

Never remove anything when cleaning a mod unless your 10000% certain of what the consequences are. :blink:

FCOM-related ESM will break integrity of FCOM, but its esp itself could do some cleaning. At least undeleting references.

The clean mod function of OBMM should only clean files that match the records it finds in the OMOD. There is another function, that is a bit more troublesome. I forgot what it was called, but Phoshi? cleared up his misstatement, and noted the other function in the thread. After reading the OBMM Readme, it says that it will clean "any files that conflict with the mod," and, to me, this does not say that it will only clean files that are a part of the OMOD, meaning it will not distinguish whether the files came from the OMOD being cleaned or another OMOD. This does make some sense because if you install a mod manually and then look at that same mod's OMOD, the conflict report will show conflicts, even though all of the files are the same. I am not really sure about all of this because I have used that function and had it not remove any files (even though there were conflicting files.) It may only clean files that it "knows" were installed with the OMOD, but had not been removed for some reason. Try it out, and let me know.


@mxms: People have many opinions about testing mods, and CTD on load is only a minor consideration. If you properly install everything and everything you install is designed properly, then you should not have a CTD on load. Building a load order slowly is about being able to easily figure out which mod is destabilizing a stabilized setup. I have to agree that the longer you play before adding a mod the better, and a number of hours of play time sounds reasonable (if your game can run that long without crashing normally. ) Running through the starter dungeon is definitely a poor test. Many or most mods factors do not come into play, while you remain in the starter dungeon. You should at least get outside and run through the IC and a few other cities. While my load order has remained simple, and very familiar to me, I have performed only quick tests. I start with the starter dungeon, run through the IC, COC testing hall, COC Chorrol Mages guild, run through Chorrol, COC Bravil Fighters or Mages Guild, run through Bravil (a lot) and, finally, start up my save from after the sewer exit to proceed playing the game normally. I check all of those locations because I have had many experiences crashing in those respective locations. I forgot to mention that as I leave the IC, I go across the bridge through Weye first before fast traveling or using COC. The best way to test is to just play long enough to reach many areas of the game, before adding additional mods. Of course, you do not have to add mods one at a time. I put together a safe load order, then added a specific group, tested it, and then added another group. I used five groups to get to 182 plugins. Of course, the more familiar you are with the mods and their peculiarities, the more reassuring it is for one to build a load order in this manner. All of the mods I have in my load order are mods I expect to work without serious problems. I have many more mods I want to add to my load order, but I do not know them well enough. Once I have played my current setup for a few days, or more, I will add a few other mods. I am not in a rush to throw all of my favorite quest mods and item mods in there, anyway. (My character is only level 1 now.)

In summary, play long enough that to be comfortable thinking that you have a stable game, in general. (This does not include persistent crashes that you are aware of and have decided to play with.) Test by doing things such as trying many exterior/interior transitions to different types of places (and it would be nice if you could test an OB gate.) This kind of assurance should take a few hours to acquire. Once you have a stable setup, only add mods to it one (or a few of the same type or a set) at a time. After playing with it for a while, you can do the same thing for the next mod (or set.)

About the loading and saving plugins one at a time step: I found that there is a benefit to loading plugins up one at a time and saving, but there is only a chance of conflict, and I do not think it is the most important step. If you want to be really cautious, it is certainly not a total waste of time.

So what then, if I may ask, is your process. You say you install the basic FCOM setup, insure that it works then slowly build off that. But I'd like more info if you don't mind. How do you test each mod? Do you run through the dungeon, or skip and go right to whatever that mod does to see how it works. Do you do any house cleaning, or leave it as it is?

My method has always been activate everything after getting the original FCOM setup working (making sure to activate in the right order, after awhile I kind of know which mods will affect one another) then run a play through of the dungeon and general outside running around and see what I run into, then keep fixing it off that. It's terribly messy, time [censored], and frustrating at times.

I'm really curious how you guys with stable setups do it, I'm trying to get back into Oblivion (again) but I always find I hit road blocks which over time kills my interest. I really want to do it right this time, and then SAVE my entire directory so I never have to mess with it again, save for some general updating of the mods I already have. If the OP's method is questionable, I wouldn't mind seeing other's processes.

Edit: Thanks Tomlong75210, that's kind of what I do though you sound like you have a better pattern than I do. Problem with me is if I start playing the game I'll get into it, only to have a CTD or some anomaly pop up that I need to fix. After a few of those it takes it's toll. But I guess that's Oblivion modding for you.

On a side not, ever since using Wyre Bash I've never had a CTD during a load with the mods I use (I use some 70 or so mods). I read people's comments carefully, and if it looks like there is a chance of conflict that is potentially game crashing, I just skip it.

TES4Edit can only do so much to test a mods functionality. Yes, you can clean a plugin with it, but there are many changes that a plugin may make that were not intended (which "Remove Identical to Masters" may not pick up on.) You really have to do in game testing to be sure. The only way to eliminate a lot of unnecessary variables is to be sure that your in game environment is already fairly stable. Also, I have not used the Undelete function on the FCOM plugin's, but I do not think that that would be problematic. Can Shikishima or someone else confirm this?

@mxms: If you want, I can tell you what those specific groups there. Although the only way to put together safe groups, in the first place, is to have some (or a lot) of experience with the modules.

It's a long and tedious process mxms, but I've found through experience and troubleshooting other users problems that this is a surefire way.
First off I suggest you know the mods you want to use in advance and create OMOD's for them where applicable.
Mods like Franscesco's and OOO come with installers, so use your discretion when creating the OMOD for files of this size.
Do not at this stage install any of the created OMODS
Now off to build your game....

1. A clean install of Oblivion and Shivering Isles patched to the latest version.
2. Install the Unofficial Patches.
3. Download and install the basic FCOM components, adding MMM last to ensure the newer texture replacements are used.
4. coc to the testinghall for a look around to find any obvious errors.
5. Test this install by running through Vilverin using Godmode. You'll encounter all of the basic features that FCOM has to offer in the way of new items, enemies and many of the new weapons. This will verify you have the correct resource files in place.
6. Add in the expanded load order if desired and repeat Vilverin.
7. Add DLC's and any required patches, plus texture, body and LOD mods - not at this time the Unique Landscape Series.
8. Add any city enhancement mods - Open Cites etc.
9. A quick run around the various cities using coc when necessary. This will highlight any erroneous textures or flawed landscape.
10. Basic game alterations like COBL/ leveling/ magic/stealth overhaul mods are added, using the console to increase levels and skills where needed to test some of the new additions.
11. Addition of weapon/armour mods
12. Quest mods plus needed patches.
13. Unique Landscape mods plus patches.
14. Build and add the bashed patch, allowing respawn to take effect.
15. Play for a couple of hours ensuring to visit dungeons and caves of all types you'll encounter during the game itself. This includes various alyied ruins/caves/forts that are known to be frequented by different factions.

Hopefully all has this has gone flawlessly.

16. Char-gen and create your game character.

The only mods that I ever clean are ones with known issues that have been highlighted in other threads as being troublesome. I mean why look for problems where none may exist?
Research for this part can be time consuming.

In reply to Tomlong75210, no plug-in dependent on a master file should ever be cleaned.

Thank you for your post Shikishima, that actually helps me a lot. I never had a good testing method, and yours and Tomlong's have made me realize that.

Over the next few days I'm just going to play test the crap out my install. I have all my OMODs ready to go. I'm not sure if you OMOD your FCOM setup, but I install each mod (OOO, MMM, and Frans) according to the cheat sheet. I extract them to their own folder setup accordingly. Then I OMOD that folder, and then activate the OMODs in accordance to the cheat sheet instructions. I never did MMM last though. I do it, OOO, MMM, Frans, War Cry, then Bob's Armory.

@Shikishima: Can you get to Vilverin with a command like "COC Vilverin?" Wait...I am sure that by the end of the cleaning discussion, the conclusion was that it is okay to clean dependent mods so long as you load all dependencies. Patches are iffy, and I do not touch mods that have been recommended to avoid cleaning (i.e., FCOM.) What, exactly, is the problem if a person did use "Undelete and Disable" on an FCOM patch. What difference would it make...nevermind.

@mxms: MMM is the most recently updated, so it would make sense to use the more recent files. This is especially true of creatures, since MMM handles the bulk of that aspect of FCOM anyway.

4. coc to the testinghall for a look around to find any obvious errors

What do you mean by that? For istance, when i check the weapon/armor/clothes rooms in the testinghall they're all dark and floorless: does it mean that i've some serious issue?

Does it look that way in Vanilla Oblivion? Some of the rooms are empty...

Shikishima,

I've been following your list of steps fairly closely, and it's working out well so far, so thanks. I should point out that the advice you gave Tomlong was incorrect though - at least based on the http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Mod_Cleaning_Tutorial; it says:

"Do it right: Making sure you load all files that the mod you are cleaning relies upon (.esp or .esm) into TES4Edit in the correct load order, including both explicit dependencies and implicit dependencies."