Stop forcing me to join guilds! :( : V - Skyrim

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:44 pm

How did you know there was a stone in there? Huh?

Probably they saw the list on the wiki or the UESP...

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:35 pm

How is it rationalizing?

I imagine that any halfway intelligent thief would find it much easier to gain entrance to the College by feigning interested in joining, followed by a total "cleaning" of everyone's rooms.

You not only have to join, you have to complete a major quest as well.

Am I the only one confused by the fact that you're given almost no direction about "No Stone Unturned?" I think it would have been really nice if you could show the stones to various people and they would tell you if they had ever seen/heard of anyone who had one like it before. You could also request them from people who do have them rather than just stealing (This again, might make Speech more worthwhile).

Thieves don't just wander about aimlessly into every place they come upon looking for goods. They have to have a reason to think that there's actually something worth stealing to go through the trouble of breaking in and looting the area.

Then they would have to use more dialogue, which since the advent of fully voiced games is apparently too hard. You probably could have done that in Morrowind.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:57 pm

How is it rationalizing?

I imagine that any halfway intelligent thief would find it much easier to gain entrance to the College by feigning interested in joining, followed by a total "cleaning" of everyone's rooms.

again, if you don't see the very obvious difference between using one's mind and actual, in-game mechanics, gameplay and options, i'm not going to debate the issue.

we can always use our minds anyways. that's not a legitimate argument for the absence of actual game features.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:32 pm

Am I the only one confused by the fact that you're given almost no direction about "No Stone Unturned?" I think it would have been really nice if you could show the stones to various people and they would tell you if they had ever seen/heard of anyone who had one like it before. You could also request them from people who do have them rather than just stealing (This again, might make Speech more worthwhile).

Thieves don't just wander about aimlessly into every place they come upon looking for goods. They have to have a reason to think that there's actually something worth stealing to go through the trouble of breaking in and looting the area.

But what if one stone isn't seen by anyone... what then? => :confused:

right?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:46 am

How did you know there was a stone in there? Huh?

Now there's a good point. If you're really RPing, your character wouldn't know the stone was there unless someone pointed it out to them.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Anyway, I was making my way through a list of the 24 stones/gems,

Which NPC gave you a list?

Edit: :toughninja:

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:37 pm

I quit GTA because of secret packages....just wasn't lore friendly..... :banana:

nop lies

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:12 am

I've just had the same issue with the 'forbidden legend' quest.
I'm a warrior who would have to join the mages guild to gain access to Saarthaal - No thanks.

The other daft issue with this is that people with absolutely no aptitude or interest in magick can join the guild in the first place.

The guilds are a joke and one of the big let downs for me in this game.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:49 pm

again, if you don't see the very obvious difference between using one's mind and actual, in-game mechanics, gameplay and options, i'm not going to debate the issue.

we can always use our minds anyways. that's not a legitimate argument for the absence of actual game features.

Ok, well can you please explain how conning your way into the College would look/feel different than what currently exists?

Because for my money, your character's motivations are pretty open when you come to the college.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:34 am

Ok, well can you please explain how conning your way into the College would look/feel different than what currently exists?

The game doesn't react to it. No one will realize you robbed the mages guild, you will just forever be the new recruit of the college. Guards are not looking for you, college mages do not attack you or try to catch you afterwards, your fellow thieves don't congratulate your risky yet successful heist.

All possiblities of what the player might do are of not course possible to include in the game, but an item related to a thieves guild quest located behind a quest locked door should be one of them.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:49 pm

Let's see. I was working down a list, because I had 2 more gems to find, and if I HADN'T checked a list, I would never of found it or even had an idea of where it would be because I never planned to join the College. -_-

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:13 am

The game doesn't react to it. No one will realize you robbed the mages guild, you will just forever be the new recruit of the college. Guards are not looking for you, college mages do not attack you or try to catch you afterwards, your fellow thieves don't congratulate your risky yet successful heist.

All possiblities of what the player might do are of not course possible to include in the game, but an item related to a thieves guild quest located behind a quest locked door should be one of them.

Well that's an entirely different complaint, because you can hardly isolate it to that case alone.

But in defense of why things aren't like that: it's very difficult to create an open-world game with severe, world-altering consequences (NPC dialogue is actually a pretty severe world consequence). The type of AI you're looking for is years away, because you're thinking of an unobserved burglary being discovered, the guards being informed, an investigation being started and carried out, involving questioning, searches, etc. That would, of course, be very fun, but it's nowhere near possible.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:13 pm

I've been playing my Khajiit Assassin/Thief character, and I recently started the "No Stone Unturned" quest (I think that's the name). Anyway, I was making my way through a list of the 24 stones/gems, and I suddenly see that one of the them is in the Arch-Mages Quarters in Winterhold. I am an ASSASSIN, and this quest if primarily a THIEVES GUILD quest. I use no magic and do not want to join a guild as it feels incredibly weird and stupid and doesn't fit into my character at all. I am not on PC and therefore there is no real fix to this.

Why do I have to join a guild that most people doing this quest don't want to join?

Quit your moaning, it's accessible in the second quest for the college. If you're roleplaying a thief, then the first quest should be treated as gaining their trust.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:38 am

Let's see. I was working down a list, because I had 2 more gems to find, and if I HADN'T checked a list, I would never of found it or even had an idea of where it would be because I never planned to join the College. -_-

these assumptions are so off-base and add nothing meaningful to the conversation. they do not prove a point or lend toward your rationale.

i've played a mage and thief on different playthroughs. next.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:31 am

Quit your moaning, it's accessible in the second quest for the college. If you're roleplaying a thief, then the first quest should be treated as gaining their trust.

Noooo, that involves thinking! Brain hurt! Nooooo!

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:52 pm

The game doesn't react to it. No one will realize you robbed the mages guild, you will just forever be the new recruit of the college.

Exactly.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:42 pm

Noooo, that involves thinking! Brain hurt! Nooooo!

Point well taken

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:22 pm

Let's see. I was working down a list, because I had 2 more gems to find, and if I HADN'T checked a list, I would never of found it or even had an idea of where it would be because I never planned to join the College. -_-

So your thief didn't look at the giant building separated from the rest of the poor and broken town that is Winterhold and instantly think "Wow! I bet that place has all kinds of stuff to steal!"?

Cause mine did. With-Sticky-Fingers thinks that about pretty much any place that isn't a normal sized house though.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:46 pm

As people have stated, the game does not react to your character going into the College, stealing nearly everything and wandering off and never coming back. You could come back in 10 years and the people there would still think you are just that new recruit with little magic experience who turned up the same day everything in the college was stolen. How does that make any sense? I do not want to join the college even if I can rationalize it (which I can't) as a "con".

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:40 am

Ok, well can you please explain how conning your way into the College would look/feel different than what currently exists?

Because for my money, your character's motivations are pretty open when you come to the college.

that's why creative dialogue, choices, questlines, writing and function, is paramount. otherwise, functional, in-game meaninglessness.

think about how much fun this could possibly be with a quality speech and acrobat/climbing/sneak system. the chance to get caught, barred from ever enrolling and a generally infamous disposition for the remainder of game, thereby, lending even more importantce towards a high speech ability to even interact with college members.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:35 pm

As people have stated, the game does not react to your character going into the College, stealing nearly everything and wandering off and never coming back. You could come back in 10 years and the people there would still think you are just that new recruit with little magic experience who turned up the same day everything in the college was stolen. How does that make any sense? I do not want to join the college even if I can rationalize it (which I can't) as a "con".

Ok, just to help with your rationalization (because the complaint about lack of consequences is an entirely different topic than the OP):

You're a thief. You want to get into a heavily guarded fortress full of dangerous magic-users. Do you:

1) Trust that there's no possible way that they could ever see you entering their fortress of a school across a narrow, exposed bridge?

2) Gain access to the College through duplicitous, sneaky, some-may-even-say-thieflike means?

I know what my thief would do.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:29 am

As people have stated, the game does not react to your character going into the College, stealing nearly everything and wandering off and never coming back. You could come back in 10 years and the people there would still think you are just that new recruit with little magic experience who turned up the same day everything in the college was stolen. How does that make any sense? I do not want to join the college even if I can rationalize it (which I can't) as a "con".

The game does the same for pretty much everything you do though. One member of the Companions is still wondering why Skjor let me join when I'm the Harbinger. It's not worth fixating on that flaw for this one incident.

And besides, what does it matter how they'll react if you're never going back there anyway?

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:18 pm

As people have stated, the game does not react to your character going into the College, stealing nearly everything and wandering off and never coming back. You could come back in 10 years and the people there would still think you are just that new recruit with little magic experience who turned up the same day everything in the college was stolen. How does that make any sense? I do not want to join the college even if I can rationalize it (which I can't) as a "con".

Then go without, simple.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:14 pm

that's why creative dialogue, choices, questlines, writing and function, is paramount. otherwise, functional, in-game meaninglessness.

think about how much fun this could possibly be with a quality speech and acrobat/climbing/sneak system. the chance to get caught, barred from ever enrolling and a generally infamous disposition for the remainder of game, thereby, lending even more importantce towards a high speech ability to even interact with college members.

this would be fantastic. use acrobatics to get into the college, speech to convince any (awake) college members that you are there for a legit reason, and then break into wherever you need to.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:33 am

Let's see. I was working down a list, because I had 2 more gems to find, and if I HADN'T checked a list, I would never of found it or even had an idea of where it would be because I never planned to join the College. -_-

The main quest isn't related to the Thieves Guild is it? but you do it anyway to get the stone... so you're a Dragonborn thief/assassin?

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