again, that is just my opinion of the actions he committed, and not a fact.

That would not be good for the upcoming war against the Dominion....

You gonna back up that opinion sometime? Saying its your opinion does nothing. Opinions still need to be based off reason.

Nine totally independent states? Want what you want, but if we had it your way, we'd probably see Skyrim fall for the first time in history.

Killing Torygg using an ancient law that grants him the title of High King? Kind of selfish if you ask me.

Again, he does what benefits him, but also benefits Skyrim.

Kills Torygg, seeks to be High King. Seems legit non-selfish. /sarcasm

You have a right to your own opinion, but you do not have the right to not have your opinions challenged. You're participating in a public forum, so other do have the right to say you are wrong. Deal with it.

And you don't have the right to your own facts either, just so that is mentioned.


So, because you feel like it, you are going to ignore the more nuanced motivations Ulfric pretty clearly shows(which you explicitly admit, no less) in favor of the opinion you like the most? This is starting to look more and more like the anti-science propaganda groups by each post.

But Ulfric's greed is still bad, even though it can easily be classified under this "Good Greed". I mean, that is self-evident, right?

I travel forth to free you from the infernal ward of Valdar, and tear him asunder. All will hear your name on that day, and all will obay! And on that day you will destroy both the imperials and stormcloaks, binding you as god-lich forever!

So apparently, any person who leads a rebellion is a selfish [censored]. Someone's gotta be the High King. Which of his supporters would be better suited? Perhaps he should go for a democracy? His people would demand he be king anyway. There's got to be a leader. Him going for a leading position isn't selfish. Being King isn't all ponies and rainbow farts.

Can you give any evidence at all that he sought to be High King for selfish reasons, and not because he knew he was best for the job?

I will say one final time: HUMANITY WILL UNITE NO MATTER WHO WINS SKYRIM! SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT SKYRIM UNDER THE EMPIRE, WILL BE DECIMATED BY THE THALMOR OR THAT THE EMPEROR'S DEATH WILL KILL ANY CHANCE OF AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN THE HUMAN RACES!

Ulfric: Ohh ohh! I know the answer to this!

.....NO.

can you prove he has the diplomatic and negotiation and political skills needed to lead his people in peace time, and not just in war.

Show me a post where someone said this, then I will.

Can you prove he doesn't? Apparently the Empire doesnt, or their provinces wouldn't be leaving.

YOU ARE COMPLETELY DODGING THE QUESTION BY BRINGING BACK AN UNRELATED POINT USING ALL CAAAAAPS!

And how do you know humanity will all unite? Just wondering because you seem very sure of this.

And we're back to the copout. Congratulations folks, we have made another round around the lap! Surely, this is an interesting race, with no clear winner in sight! What a show, what a show!

If you don't get why this argument doesn't work in these discussions by now, if doubt you ever will.

IT just seems the most logical thing to do, either that or set a canon or go dragonbreak.

I get it, people are just too passionate about it. and I am passionate about this issue of the Civil War getting dropped.

I asked first.

And actually, he isn't King yet, and he's already shown diplomatic skill by sparing all of the Imperial Jarls.

You're right there I guess. If someone had to lead the rebellion of out the Jarls, I'd rather have Ulfric.

I think they will, or at least all fight on different fronts against the Thalmor which is just as good because Beth usually makes two outcomes end the same for canon purposes, but it sure as hell doesn't make the civil war unimportant, or make anything invalid. You cant argue this when you're arguing this from an in game perspective,

Hmmm... I suppose considering that it's a Civil war between Nords, I didn't really think much of it. I mean, all Jarl are Nords, and all Imperial and Stormcloak Stormtroopers (oh hey, it fits) are Nords. The speech seems to be something to rally Nords, so I just went along with that.

I have never appreciated Hevnoraak and Cider! more than this moment.

I think they will too. Dragon break would be lame, and I don't see Beth choosing a canon, but I'm asking because he said that they WOULD. As if it is known.

There is more to Leading a country than being a better warrior. He may have been diplomatic, but there is also the issue that his war ENTIRELY drained the Coffers of Windhelm.

So has the Empire, they spared every Jarl, except you know who.