What do you mean by that exactly?

I am saying Talos screwed the nords up and they forgot who they were...

Ulfric has nothing to do about it, Maven hasn't done anything that could be seen as oppressive nor does she force her workers into slavery and everything she does is subtle. Sure she isn't the best person but she isn't as bad as people make her out to be.

If only you were around during the good ol' days of the first era. *uber nostalgic moment*

Ahhhhh.... those. were. the... days... Oh, how far the nords have culturally regressed... Did you know, the Nords of yore used to read, and discuss philosophy?

Valdar's fault...

Tahrodiis Valdar!!! Nikriin!

And who were they exatcly?

Have you been to the black briar meadery (sp) lately? If not, I suggest giving them a visit my good man.

I would like to have been there...

Talos didn't screw the Nords up, more like, the Nords perception and obsession with him, screwed them up.

she is worse than people make her out to be.
ask the poor Bosmer about Maven and pass the speech thingy.

How do you possible know that? Those were the days?

No you wouldn't because Otar likes to ruin all the fun.

Very, very, very original name by the way.

Except there are workers who failed her and they still live, i see it more as a rumor or in-house myth as a scare tactic rather then actual truth.

Maven is definitely one of the most disliked Jarls, but she gets things done.

Pretty selective of you.

As do the silver-bloods clearly.

Whats your point? Altmer..

And yours XD

...

I was there, mortal. you have the glory of speaking to one of the esteemed High Priests of the benevolent Dragon cult. Dare I say, the most wise and powerful of the Priesthood, and the most merciful. My followers are were so happy and loyal, they STILL serve me today in death. You will pay no heed to whatever slander Morokei may throw around! I was the most loved, of the Priesthood.

That rant of his... I STILL remember it! Make it go away!

I'm not saying Maven is a saint but she is not as bad as some people make her out to be, sure she is essentially a mafia boss that everyone is afraid of but she gets things done.

Of course. I don't necessarly like Maven or the Silver Bloods, but they get it done.

Do you like the Silver Bloods? Surely the Stormcloaks here dislike of their leaders now?

By using rackets and imprisoning people who are trying to make a living

Even the Silver-blood mercenary at least pays Ainethach or tries to convince you to make him sell his lands or leaves him alone. What does Maven and her cronies do? Force a hard working brewer into prision for the rest of his life.

Ohh baloney.

the bosmer says "I'm the 4th person to work the tasting counter in the last year. the last 3 are at the bottom of lake honrich."

She tells the player she will get the TG or DB if anyone does something she doesnt like.

oh and this is another repeated debate. the Maven debate.

Black Briars, Silver-blood, they are all bad, every jarl, every lord, every king, deadric princ.. they all want power, and controll.

It's funny cause there is no evidence that Thonar actually supports the Stormcloaks like his older brother. Sure he hates the Empire, but that is because they interfere with his business.

Yeah, it's not only legion/stormcloaks anymore.