Are you kidding me? What do you call stomping on the others with a giant robot, assimilating them into an empire and forcing Nord-Cyrodiil culture on their native ways? Tiber depopulated (read, massacred and forcibly removed) whole regions of Elsweyr when he was conquering it. The imperials collectivized agriculture in Black Marsh (see The Argonian Account) and caused a lot of starvation and suffering. There has always been anti-imperial sentiment in the provinces, though only recently did they act on it and Skyrim is obviously late in coming to it since they've always been part of the imperial core.

They mistrust it. And there is ample evidence for why one should.

The Dunmer and Nords are ancient enemies. They've fought over border regions for centuries. Bigotry goes both ways. Despite this, the Nords were generous after the Vvardenfell eruption, when they could have used it to their advantage. The latter would have been more in keeping with how things in Tamriel roll.

That's not remotely true. The Sea of Ghosts happened the second time the Atmorrans came to Skyrim to wage war against the Snow Elves - long before Tiber Septim was born.

Wasn't Ulfric released by the thalmor during the markarth incident, starting the rebellion? For the ultimate goal of weakening the empire? Ulfric does serve his own end of trying to free skyrim. But ultimately his forces are just helping the thalmor weaken the empire in general. Makes me think the stormcloaks aren't technically bad, just being used.

Also the most publicly used reason for the rebellion is, the outlaw of talos worship. Which was implemented only after the thalmor got done kicking the empires butt. The thalmor created the issue.

the thing is an empire could help and raise the chances of success, bit it dosent mean that medes empire is.

I mean really the empire is emporerless. Just like the septim empire, the mede empire is no mpre.

Why does it have to be an empire where one race rules over everyone and trys to change everyones culture into their culture?
Why cant there be an empire of countrys in allience? you cant say that wouldnt work bc everyone can cite rl sourses of similar events happened and was won by alliences of countrys and not everyone being under a single thumb trying to change everyone?
Also u cant say that ulfric and stormcloaks wouldny be up for that when theres ingame sourses that they have alrdy reached out to other countrys.

Why do you think the only chance of survival has to be an empire all under one thumb and not an allience between countrys however temporary that share the same goals of taking down a common enemy?

If you ask me, neither side is "bad"

although on one hand, the Empire is trying to take away the Nord's, and skyrim's, way of life away. the storm cloaks are just trying to live in peace but the empire won't let them. it's a tough call and every one would be bias on these forums.

Lol what? Winterhold was destroyed in 4E 122 in the second century.

Ulfric kills High King Torygg in 4E 201 in the third century. Thats why the the Arch Mage in winterhold(A Dunmer) remembers the event.

Source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era#4E_122

So you're telling me that Tiber Septim was being worshiped before he was even born? Wow.. That guy sure works fast.

Nope, there was no "Markarth Incident" until after the war, by which time Ulfric had been free long enough to form a militia and help take back the Reach from the Forsworn in return for the promise of free Talos worship in the city.

AFAIK the only information regarding his imprisonment with the Thalmor comes from their dossier on him. He was captured during the Great War, some time before the sack of the Imperial City, and later allowed to escape. The way the dossier was written makes it sound like there was a passage of time between when he left Thalmor custody and the Markarth Incident. If he was allowed to escape, rather than simply released, then most likely the war was still going on at the time (assuming that POWs were systematically released once the war was over). It ended in 175, the Markarth Incident was in 176, so he could have been free for up to a year or more before what happened in the Reach.

It did serve the Thalmor's ends, as it gave them an excuse to demand the right to enforce the Talos ban within Imperial territory, and it does say that "contact" was made with Ulfric after the war ended and presumably before what happened in Markarth. However the fact that it says he was "allowed to escape" rather than released makes it unlikely IMO that he knew the "contact" was working on their behalf, and also contradicts the notion that he was turned into a willing collaborator during his time with them.

You "allow" someone to escape so that they will go back into the world believing that they have escaped, and "escaping" is something you do from an enemy, not an ally or co-conspirator. If he had become a willing agent of their plans or was expected to do so and that was the price of his freedom, there would've been no need for the pretense; he would have just been released, and the dossier would say so, and it very clearly does not. He was allowed to regain his freedom in what he was meant to think was a successful escape from his captors, meaning he left their custody believing they were still his enemy.

That they may have found a way to instigate or encourage what happened in Markarth regarding the "deal" between the Jarl and Ulfric's men... oh yeah, I can totally see that, and personally I think that's what the bit about the "contact" probably refers to. But I think they would've found a way to sow dissent in the provinces, and particularly Skyrim, no matter what. And they would've eventually found a way to make the Empire accept them as "on the spot" enforcers of the ban, because there was no point in demanding the ban if they didn't intend to make it stick, and that would've required their hands-on involvement at some point.


Everybody's being used by the Thalmor. As long as there is civil unrest and dissent within the Empire, they're happier than pigs in ****. As soon as it stops, and everybody is free to get down to the business of preparing for eventual war with the Dominion, they've got to find a whole other way of manipulating things to their advantage.

That makes the Imperials racist as well.

Though, khajiits and argonians are living targets for bow practice Nobody will regret them anyway, and if someone is regretting them, that's making him a new target

Eh everyones racist. And u know what? For once its a good thing.

People need to leave rl racism at the door and embrace the rich racist culture of tamriel.

Eh everyones racist. And u know what? For once its a good thing.

People need to leave rl racism at the door and embrace the rich racist culture of tamriel.






You're right! Stormcloaks Are the redneks of the game! Imperials are the people of the megalopolis, argonians the black guys and khajiits the arabic people.



Time to kill some stormcloaks BD

However during their voyage to Hsaarik, the head fleet was hit by the http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_of_Separation. Both of his sons got separated from the rest of the fleet and only the youngest,http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ylgar, sailed out of it alive. It is said that Ysgramor was enraged by this. He went out in the storm alone to seek Yngol, but failed. By the time Ysgramor found the shipwreck of Harakk, Yngol and his crew were already slain by the http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sea-Ghost, whom Ysgramor is said to have hunted and burned in their honor afterwards. Ysgramor buried his son by the Atmorian traditions and dug him a barrow. The barrow became known by the name of http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Yngol_Barrow and played a role in further events.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ysgramor_%28Character%29#Return

Spot on.

I remember very clearly that the stormcloaks plan to kick out all non nord races in skyrim. Thats a pretty big bad thing in my opinion, though the imperials indiscrimently kill anyone suspect of being a stormcloak so that they can try to quickly end the way. Idk but so far from all my play throughs the imperials have always felt like the lesser of two evils.

Who says that and during which quest?

I'll replay the main campaign when I have some free time and I'll post it in this thrread. I remebered it very distinctly though because it was what changed my mind into playing imperials. not to mention the dark elves in winterhold hate the stormcloaks because of the abuse they suffer under them

I've played both sides several times and I don't remember that at all. Not even as Imperial propaganda.

Random Imperial supporter on a quest that probably involved logging into an internet forum and looking for unsubstantiated reasons to hate Ulfric Stormcloak.




I dunno, maybe it's time for an "Imperials are poopyheads?" thread...

Do you remember it as distinctly as you remember the name of the Stormcloak city where all the dark elves live and complain about how abused they are? If so, I have some unfortunate news for you...

I distinctly remember that Dark Elf woman you meet when you first enter Windhelm stating that Rolf was the worst of the racists. The worst Rolf does is yell at them at all hours of the morning.

meh I atopped playing skyrim about a month after release. just couldnt get into like I could with the others. sorry.
Meh I stopped playing skyrim in under a month after release. I just couldnt get into it like the other games. I only started playing it again about a day ago.That was just one of the things I remember the most about the civil war.

They are not bad they just have a different point of view. I don't agree with them but that does not make them evil or bad at all.

A woman who does a lot more than that to the Argonians who work for her on the docks as well. They wish all they had to put up with was a drunken Nord yelling at them.

The Stromcloaks will turn a blind eye to crime if it happens against a non Nord but if its a Nord they will jump on it. Also they have done nothing with the Gray Quarter at all and the Dunmer have been requesting things be done to it. I do not remember then saying they will banish all non Nord races.

The Thalmor are the ones who make people disappear as they have control over the empire. Also they kill Stormcloaks because if the war Ulfric began on his power trip, they kill any indescribably just like the Stormcloaks they do the same.

They are both at fault and I can see both of the groups flaws.

But the empire keeps order. Ulfric is a racist and a bigot. Ulfric killed the high king even though the high king respected ulfric. Jarl Elisef the fair (High Kings wife) even said that if ulfric had come to the high king first he might have even joined ulfrics cause. But no. Ulfric took the route of the cowered and assasinated the high king. So if executing stormcloak sympethisers is what it takes to show the nords what the price of following that murderer Ulfric is than so be it. They dont have my sympathies.

... not choosing a side here, but just asking a question. Can one call it assassination when you walk up to the ruler and issue a formal challenge?