Guess the dunmer are so far up their own ass, they're making altmer look normal. This isn't a good sign.

Although I haven't been to Windhelm yet, the book 'Dunmer in Skyrim' indicated to me that the racial tension is not one sided 'Nords hate them dirty elves' stuff.
Morrowind native Dunmer never struck me as people who'd have an easy time assimilating into other cultures to begin with.

You're not on the list because you're the only non-stormcloak on the wagon. Jiubs 1-5 are stormcloak footsoldiers, Jiub 6 is a mid-rank stormcloak, and Jiub 7 if Ulfric Stormcloak. They were all captured in some heroic raid deep into Stormcloak territory, and their names were written down on a list so the empire could do a Roman style embarrassing execution. You were picked up along the way, and since you weren't a stormcloak, you were just slotted for a regular-style execution.

Now, if you ask around, a lot of NPCs will tell you that they're recent immigrants. None of them got arrested at all. Immegration isn't the crime you're being charged with, it's illegal border crossing. Nobody knows what it is that made your border crossing illegal. Maybe you were a famous fugitive from the law, and the Nords just had no time for fancy extradition. Maybe you crossed the borders by killing a man and stealing his horse. It's all up to you to imagine.

Now, yeah, it's probably a dike move, and we know that the empire killed a dude just for leaving a door open (opening event after entering Solitude) but still, this isn't completely black and white.


It's all about the style of arrogance. That stallkeeper "knows" she's better than the nords, and is just there to make a profit ripping off all the simple-minded nords. If she has to pretend to respect them, and play along with their silly orders, she'll do it. The dunmer on the other hand...


Ulfric just doesn't care about foreigners. With him as king, there'd be no persecution of the elves, but there'd also be no protection. If a Khajiit or Dunmer or Bosmer caravan was attacked by bandits, he'd do nothing to help them. Admittadly, I got this impression from the dude who ends up taking Ulfric's throne after you kill him.


This is the answer to the OPs question.

A quick side-note about the introduction, I found it sort of interesting how the guard treated my character versus the character my boyfriend made, my character being a female Argonian and my boyfriend's being a male Khajiit. I wasn't sure if it had anything to do with gender or with race, but upon formally sentencing my character to the cutting board, the guard apologized, "I'm sorry, we'll make sure your remains are returned to Black Marsh". With the Khajiit, though I can't remember specifically what they said, I recall it being much less kind.

I'm also having some troubles sticking my nose into this conflict. Myself, I'd generally be the type to support the bluegrass freedom fighters, regardless of whether or not their goal was realistic (a symbolic gesture is better than no action taken at all), and of course, religious persecution and the way the Thalmor are gallivanting around, outwardly persecuting citizens, is revolting to say the least, but considering the questionable motives of Ulfric, and his even more questionable capacity to lead an already divided country in a time of international upheaval, is something that needs to be considered. I mean, whose to say that, as a sovereign empire, Skyrim wouldn't be forcefully absorbed back into the Aldmeri Dominion's rule anyway? The Thalmor certainly have enough political power, in my opinion, to take more of the Empire if they so desired.

My character, too, I think would be taken aback by all the political unrest thrown at her all at once; I think I'll just have to play through and settle with what "feels right".

My character, like the dominion, will continue to support the Empire as long as they do their part in carrying out and maintaining the White-Gold Concardat.

I side with the Empire, mostly. I've tried making a Stormcloak character, but the only reasons anyone gives me are either religious or idealistic. The Empire is much more practical: As Elisif said, Skyrim depends on the vast amounts of food and gold imported from the Empire.

Here's the deal

In large part, the argonians are mostly neutral to alright with everyone, unless provoked (dunmer). Heck, the argonians are not vicious enough to kill a baby dunmer. With the khajiit, Elswyr joined the Dominion, so of course it's no surprise your BF's character was told less than kind things. Not to mention, the khajiit are known to be a race of thieves to the guards and those who keep the peace.

The few Khajit I have met have lamented their treatment, talking about how they are not allowed in cities and shunned as thieves and junkies. It doesn't help matters that I have met Khajit junkies offering to hook me up with skooma.

I'm gonna side with the Empire, I just don't see Skyrim under Ulfric being independent for long. If the Empire is ousted, the Dominion is going to replace them. While I (more or less) detest what the Empire has become (agreeing to ban the worship of Talos, the single most awesome character in the TES universe in my opinion, among other things) I think the Empire is the best thing for Skyrim, if not Tamriel. Yes, it's a human nation, but they didnt seem the kind of humans that would kill elves on sight, which is what a lot of the Stormcloaks seem like.

In the end though it comes down to this: Skyrim needs the Empire (protection from the Dominion, one way or another Ulfric and his ilk will lead Skyrim to war. and resources via trade) and the Empire needs Skyrim (it us the birthplace of humanity, that alone would cause a major downturn in morale, not to mention the loss of the legendary Nord soldiers).

My point exactly. It's a mutually beneficial agreement. The logistics of an independant Skyrim (consider that Skyrim is mostly hostile to agriculture) alone is staggering.


Humans need to stay strong against the (hostile) mer. If there's one lesson to be learned from Tamrielan history, it's that, with time, all civilizations crumble.

We need that big robot thingy back, to squish the squishy elfs! :teehee:

How come everyone hates the Dark Elves? That's what my character is but it seems like they don't fit on either side.

Cause they are elves that hate everybody. They left the Altmer to worship Daedra. Then later they gave, and I quote mr_noob here a "big robot thingy, to squish the squishy elfs" to Tiber Septim, so that's not exactly something that made them a lot of friends in the current Dominion. They keep, or at least kept Argonians and Khajiit as slaves so that makes them hated there. They fought plenty of battles with the Nords and never really liked the Empire in fact they pretty much hated all human beings... So basically everybody hates the Dunmer, because they hate everyone.

The dunmer seem pretty neutral in the whole affair, more focused on themselves and their destroyed homeland than the war (which is understandable.)

I plan to play a Dunmer after my current character. He's going to be a half crazed assassin who's family was killed during the eruption of Red Mountain. He will also have a deep resentment for the Stormcloaks because of their treatment of him and others when they arrived in Skyrim.

I don't think the Stormcloaks do themselves any favors, at least in WinterHelm by being or at least appearing so nationalistic and racist. While not all of them may be, my best example being the guy you follow to Riverwood (seems like an alright fellow just under the spell of nationalism) the ones who follow Ulfric word for word surely aren't what Skyrim needs especially with a Thalmor threat looming.



OUTLANDER SCUM! It's a wonder any of them are welcome outside of Morrowind.

This discussion can be phrased in another way:

What do you hate more?

(Y) Repression and corruption?

or

(Z) Bigotry and war-mongering?

I was all Stomcloak not so long since, but now I'm stuck in the middle.

There are no expendable underground-dwelling elves with a fetish for geometry to sacrifice themselves to such a project, I'm afraid.

Well I mean I understand all that; to clarify, I suppose I meant I appreciated the game's care to take racial attitudes into consideration and not give me a cookie cutter response. Of course, I suppose I shouldn't come to expect that from this game, but it still impressed me right from the start.

It propably has to do with gender, he apologised my female khajiit character too.

Well at least the Imperials are gentlemen, then.

Its mostly race-based, not gender based from what Ive seen

The UESP says he asks if you're with the Caravans.

He actually has two racial-specific lines in that opening sequence. The first one is just after you create your character, and comments specifically on your race (it can come across as a little snide, depending). The second is after he's told to send you to the block even though you're not on the list, when he says "I'm sorry, we'll make sure your remains are returned to [home province]." (unless you're a Nord, then he says something like "At least you'll die in your homeland").

I don't think it's as much a matter of not wanting to be dependent as it is not wanting to be the subjects of elves who are hostile towards their beliefs. Then again to me the Stormcloaks came off to me as the polar opposite of the Thalmor, with the Empire in the middle. The Thalmor hate all men, and want them dead. The Stormcloaks don't care about anybody that's not a Nord, and probably want them dead, even if they haven't gotten thay far yet (as evidenced by the Stormcloak's officers constant bashing of other races as well as Ulfric's lack of care for the Dunmer in his town, an accusation supported both by the Dumer and Imperials living there). The Imperials are in the middle because they're goals seem to be more politically oriented than they are racially or religiously.

The Stormcloaks strike me as just as bigotted as the Thalmor, they're just not on the same level of douchbaggery that the Thalmor are.

There isn't even a question in my opinion. Always support the storm cloaks. The empire is a dead bureaucratic zombie that hasn't figured out that it is dead yet. With the White-Gold Concordit, the Thalmor asked for the heart of the empire and the "Emperor" basically ripped it out and gave it.

Besides, the Thalmor themselves admit in the game an Stormcloak victory would be the least desirable outcome out of the civil war for them.