Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not defending racism. In fact, I hate Chuggaaconroy's guts for his bigotry and I want to seem him lynched.

That is not the purpose of this thread. The purpose is... i haven't really seen any evidence suggesting that the Stormcloak-controlled government of Eastmarch is, in fact, racist. I'm not saying that the people of Eastmarch, generally speaking, are not racist; I am only talking about the GOVERNMENT of Eastmarch.

First, I see plenty of Imperials (such as Viola) and Altmer (such as Niranye) who are treated fairly by the local population and the government of Eastmarch. Unlike the Dunmer and Argonians, however, these races actually give the Nords REASON to be racist towards them. The Empire just got through an extremely bloody war with Altmer like Niranye, and the Stormcloaks are currently in civil war with Imperials like Viola.

The segregation of Dunmer and Argonians appear, at first glance, to lack a justification, but dig a little deeper into Eastmarch's problems: Their police force is so thinly-stretched by the war, that they can't even competently investigate a serial killing! What makes you think they can adequately put down a race riot (remember, I conceded to the possibility that some of the general populace may be racist)? The best thing to do in such a case is separate the combustible elements in the first place.

In other words, how do we know Ulfric Stormcloak issued the segregation decrees out of his own hatred for those races, and not for their PROTECTION?!

Indeed, for every piece of so-called "evidence" is see in Eastmarch that the Stormcloak government is racist, I see just as much evidence to suggest that the Dunmer and Argonians are just playing the race card.

For example, Belyn Hlaalu pretty much states flat-out that his fellow Dunmer are a bunch of whiny, self-entitled, race-card-playing [censored]es.

Or how about... when you first enter Windhelm, Suvaris Atheron is shown being harassed by a couple of supposedly-racist Nords, who make three accusations toward her:

1. You come where you're not wanted,

2. Eat our food,

3. Pollute our city with your stink, and

4. YOUR REFUSE TO HELP THE STORMCLOAKS

Why is that fourth one in capital letters? Because it is the only one of those four accusations that Suvaris actually responded to: "We haven't chosen a side because it's not our fight."

Now... why did she only respond to that one accusation? Well, nothing in-game tells us flat-out, but I think it's because Suvaris knows, even if she won't admit to it out-loud, that the fourth accusation was the one those Nords truly cared about. They are so obsessed with independence from the Empire that, as far as they are concerned, there are no neutral parties to the war, as was demonstrated in the "Message to Whiterun" quest.

Speaking of which, that brings me to my next point: The fact that you can join the Stormcloaks regardless of your race shows that the Stormcloak army is an equal-opportunity employer. You could argue that this is gameplay being prioritized over lore, but then how do you explain the fact that Galmar acknowledges your race with in-game dialogue, yet that acknowledgement has no gameplay repercussions whatsoever? That is CERTAINLY lore over gameplay!

Speaking of Galmar, his lack of racism is further evidenced by the fact that, even if you're a Nord, he still makes you go and kill the ice wraith like everyone else. Clearly, Nords get no special treatment under him.

To that extent, I've seen more evidence that the Orc Strongholds are racist than the Stormcloak army. Again, is it gameplay over lore? I doubt it, because if the Orc Strongholds can let you in automatically if you're the right race, why can't Bethesda program the Stormcloaks to do the same?

So, in conclusion, is the Stormcloak army and the government of Eastmarch truly racist? Because I haven't seen any irrefutable evidence saying that they are.

I summon ColonelKillaBee for his anti-racist stormcloak thingy.

Nah, Colonel likes taking breaks from these things.

Argonians still aren't allowed in the city walls. There's pretty much no way that that's not racist.

This has been discussed to death

People follow what everyone else says,They dont do their own research about the thing.

I can say Imperials are racists too.

People need us to rule their land,without us they wont survive,Without us they are just lawless savages.

My OP was based on 100% first-hand observation.

Ok, then, tell me: Is it racist when Brunwerth Free-Winter becomes Jarl, and still doesn't let the Argonians in the city?

I mean... he flat-out STATES, with in-game dialogue, that he's keeping Ulfric's supposedly "racist" decree intact for "protection" reasons. So how do you know that Ulfric didn't initiate the decree for the same reasons?

I'd join the Stormcloaks if it was so blatantly pro-Nord.

Is there racism among the Stormcloaks and the Nords in general? Yes. Is it more than the norm in Tamriel? Nope. Tamriel is far from being politically correct and there is a common pro-ones-own-race part of each culture. Is the racism among the Stormcloaks worse than that of the Empire? Not that I have seen.

Most of the racism thing seems to come form people's dislike for Ulfric or Nords in general and thus using it as a justification, rather than a reason. Sometimes I halfway expect people to start to claim that Ulfric is corrupt and having his guards shake down people in the city for coin because he has a similar name to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ulrich_Leland, the corrupt guard captain in Cheydinhal in Oblivion.

What? How is he racist?

I've already explained it a hundred thousand damn times on Runaway Guys video.

I don't watch runaway guys, just the individual channel, PM me, I'm curious.

Everyone who isn't a Stormcloak is much happier to see the Empire take over after Ulfric is dead. In game observations.

Draw your own conclusions.

Snap.

- Huh. I wouldn't have expected that, a ton of people seem to love that guy. I'm curious, what did he say that was racist?

- If they were treated fairly, there wouldn't be a reason for a riot in the first place.

- Gameplay. Have you ever seem a single non-Nord person in the Stormcloak army aside from yourself? Skyrim is filled with foreigners, I find it hard to believe none have joined in simply because ALL of them are assh0les.

Not to mention that Galmar and Ulfric's speeches (Battle for Whiterun/Solitude) always specifically focus on the Nords, it's never about Skyrim's people as a whole.

Every race is racist.

Well, there is another thing Brunwulf-Free-Winter mentions. Didn't he say that Ulfric willingly helped any Nord residents of Skyrim that were in danger, but any Caravans of Khajiit, Argonians, or Dunmer raided by bandits were completely ignored by him?

that could certainly be considered racial segregation.

He didn't answer me:

I wouldn't count on a reply.

People blame whoever's in charge for their problems? I'm shocked.

Naturally you're casting your net quite wide to include a lot of civilians who aren't actually Stormcloaks, and a lot of others who don't have any partisan feeling at all.

I don't know how he could've expected everyone here to have watched a specific video. And I sure as hell won't search for it.

Ja; and besides, I'm a pretty big fan of his work.

The nations of Tamriel are divided along racial boundaries. When the game's designers have made it so that Morrowind belongs to the Dunmer, and Black Marsh belongs to the Argonians, and Skyrim belongs to the Nords, I think some racism is unavoidable.

Interesting points raised.

I for one have never really seen the Stormcloak as racist. I see them as having an abundance of pride in their own race, traditions, general way of life; but the same could be said of any other race. I also see them responding in a way that makes me think by and large Nords feel threatened by strangers, which only suggests over-protectiveness even to the point of paranoia at times. Hardly racist and not without cause or reason. They love their way of life and are willing to fight brutally hard to make sure their lives and future is secured. I find nothing wrong with this.

That's not to say that there aren't "racist elements" within the Nord community, nor am I excusing them; but you also can't convince me that there aren't any "racist element" within any of the Mer or even Beast races either. Nothing new here.

[end note] I have no idea who this Chuggaaconroy is. I'll have to look him up.

[update] the guy does video game walkthroughs....wth?...I'm beginning to think this whole post was a shameless plug.

There certainly is Races though who have a more abundance of "racist elements" entirely.

I don't doubt that there are some, but I can't think of any specific Khajiit who were racist. I mean there's some mention that they sometimes have something against Bosmer due to the Five Years War, but that's about all I can think of.. o.o

If you listen to Ulfric when first entering the palace as I did on my 2nd play through you will find that he is not antagonistic toward the Dunmer or anyone else, he just doesn't have the time to delve into their complaints since so much of his attention is focused on the war.

He doesn't snap. "Get them out of my city!" or even "They just want to bellyache." He just shrugs it off.

Was the government bigoted they would be out of Windhelm but there are very few like the one guy who is always walking through the grey quarter telling them off and complaining to you about them. As a matter of fact he is the oly one I can remember who actually does so.

I just consider the Stormcloaks to be "Nord Nationalist" myself.