Ok so I am trying to work out who I support in the war in Skyrim.Are the stormcloaks basically racist/nationalistic nords or am I missing something? So far I think imperials are the better option, they have done things wrong but are the better choice. Every npc I talk to, the dumb, barbaric ones who frown upon magic etc all support stormcloaks and the more intelligent characters support the empire.

Please no spoilers.

That's one way of looking at it. You could also think of the Stormcloaks as the guys of the American Revolution, seeking to rule themselves and not be dependent on a distant and irrelevant empire. There's no right or wrong answer to who to choose, so if the Empire sounds better to you then go with it

If anything, the Stormcloaks are biased/prejudiced against Elves because of the Thalmor. They just want Skyrim's independence.

There are two sides to the story, as usual. Ulfric and his Stormcloaks seem on the one hand to be valiantly standing up for the traditions of Skyrim, and in fact the Empire, defending Talos against the weak-willed Emperor and his Thalmor masters. They just want to be left alone really, ruling themselves.

On the other hand, if you talk to someone else, they are murderous barbarians, selfishly sowing discord and strife to satisfy Ulfric's own ambition. He is a regicide and a war criminal, murdering women and children, full of hatred for anyone not a Nord. If he is not stopped, he will upset the delicate peace that the wise Emperor managed to broker with the powerful Thalmor.

There are a thousand sides to this story. The Stormcloaks are rebelling against the Empire. Some are doing it out of pure xenophobic elf-hate (think anti-jewish sentiment), some are doing it out of battle-born elf-hate (think anti-german sentiment during the world wars), some are doing it for religious reasons (they're devoted to Talos), some are doing it for political reasons, some are doing it for economic reasons, some are doing it out of a battle-lust, some are doing it to prove themselves, some are doing it just to be rebellious, and some are doing it purely because all of their neighbors joined in and they don't want to be the odd one out. The only constant factor is diversity. They all have their own reasons for fighting, just like in any armed conflict.

For what it's worth, their leadership seems to be in it for genuine religious reasons.

Nationalists? Oh you betcha.

Racist? Try Speciest.

Nooooooo, Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire. I mean, we're on Hoth, and everything.

Seriously though, I'm having trouble siding with anyone, too. I sympathised with Ulfric at the execution (plus, the Empire had the gall to execute me for not being on their to-kill list), but the Medes are just such badasses. So I'm staying out of it for the time being.

I'm staying out of it too for the time being. I recon there will be a part of the main quest when I'll be prompted one way or the other, once we know what is happening with the dragons. I'm just too torn between the sides right now to pick one.

I'm one more for the non-side of neutrality.

I'm naturally inclined to support the home-spun upstart rebels fighting against the big cold bureaucratic empire, but the Stormcloaks seem to be a realistic revolutionary group, which makes it and its leader somewhat unlikable. And while I'm all for Talos and down with the Thalmor, the Stormcloak supporters motivations seem to largely consist of xenophobia and blind adherence to religious tradition. They may be RIGHT in adhering to that tradition, but it doesn't make them any less blind as to WHY they're right.

With enemies you know where you stand, but with neutrals?

Well starting out the game with the info i have so far i wanted to join the legion and support the empire and what not However i learn on this ban on Talos worshipping and damn dirty apes .. i mean elfs ... running the show ... i think am joining the Stormclocks

I agree with one of the posters above, going off what i have only seen thus far, the Stormclocks seem to be fighting to restore the empire, restore freedom of worship, and liberate themsevles from the tyranny of the elves!

That's exactly what I thought. They're basically trying to run another anti-elven pogrom in Skyrim.

The Empire is all for getting rid of the Thalmor, too. But unlike the Stormcloaks, The Empire knows it's in no position to do any such thing. According to The Great War, the Thalmor managed to overtake a good portion of southern Tamriel, excluding Black Marsh, and managed to sack and take White-Gold. It was only because Titus II retreated that he managed to later mount a counter-offensive and take back White-Gold. But with all the heavy fighting and losses, he knew he could not keep it up, so he bluffed the Thalmor into the treaty that banned Talos and annexed Hammerfell. This way, he could keep White-Gold and remain in charge of the remaining provinces, although the Thalmor continue to be a strong, controlling presence. The Emperor is just biding his time until the Empire recovers enough to fully go after the Thalmor.

That's the impression I get, anyway.

With a Placeholder Emperor, I doubt the Empire will ever successfully overthrow the Thalmor. In the long run, sure, it's quite possible the low birth rates of the elves might leave them at a disadvantage, but most people aren't happy of thinking "we'll be free again, someday... my great great grandchildren will see to it!".

I was all psyched up for supporting the Stormcloaks after the introduction, but after visiting their capital... it looks like the Stormcloaks in Imperial territory are playing the part of traditional patriot, but the greatest indicator of how the Stormcloaks will rule can theoretically be seen in the territory they own, not the places they're fighting for. So, going based off that, Ulric either just doesn't care, or actively encourages anti-elven sentiment (although one Bosmeri merchant seemed to be doing fine, and said it was at least 1/2 the Dunmer's fault they were stuck in the Gray Quarter).

On the other hand, my first trip to an Imperial-owned city (after the one that tried to behead me...) saw witness to the execution of a guy who did nothing but let Ulric through the gate after he (allegedly) won a fair, old-school duel... even if Ulric was guilty, he'd just Shouted a man to death, and I highly doubt the gateman could've done anything to stop him, so I'm having a hard time liking the Imperials any, too.

my first character was a nord, so i went with the storm cloaks. After all if the empire cant protect them or there ideals, by what right does that empire have to rule them? Plus they tried to kill me, (the empire) so i didn't want to help them. Maybe the next character will

It is kinda funny how the imperial guy that does help escort you out of the city tries to say if you're still cool with the empire and to just ignore what happened.

I'm actually playing through the imperial quests (because that's what I think Alinor would want) and I have to say, I really like what they do with Harvard (or whatever his name really is). He has this strangely adorable quality about him, where he sees all of these problems with what he's doing, such as killing his countrymen and siding with such execution-happy people, but just weakly keeps on going, because he really believes in the Empire. It's almost like the empire is his best friend, and he knows its just going through a really rough patch right now. And all of this was conveyed to me in, like, five to twenty lines of dialog.

It's really a far cry from "mudcrabs"

Dude, his commander was like "This guy isn't on the list....all well, I'm sure people would like to see an argonian get killed this time."

Quite harsh for just an illegal entry.

Which is why I cannot, with this character, side with the Empire. Sure, some of the Stormcloaks are hard-core racist jerks, but they're not executing people for the giggles, or actively hunting elves in general (that I know of, yet). If they're bastards, it's because they, as individuals, are. For the Imperials, well... I have no mercy for people "just following orders".

Ralof seems like a nice guy, even if your an elf. He helps you escape, and suggests to join the Stormcloaks (saying that you don't need to be a Nord to fight for Skyrim). You can join, though the recruiter (can't remember his name) asks why an elf wants to join the Stormcloaks. Saying that it's your home is good enough for him.

The racism seems to be more of a Windhelm thing than a Stormcloak thing. I'd imagine Western Skyrim would remain tolerant under Ulfric. Can't say for sure, though. Haven't done the Civil War questline.

The main saving grace for the Stormcloaks in Windhelm was a Bosmer running a jewelry stand. I asked her about how she was doing in Windhelm, and she said that she got along fine with the Stormcloaks, once she made it clear she didn't have any issues with them if they didn't have any issues with her, and then making some comment about how the Dark Elves "all" act like they deserve royal treatment. A generalization, I'm positive, but a sign that things, while complicated, don't HAVE to degenerate into some kind of Windhelm Race Riot.

One point for the Stormcloaks, leading the Imperials by a sad 2/-2.

I haven't been around the empire or the stormcloaks all that much. Focusing on acquiring books, searching for ancient knowledge, and doing College chores.

And Seeker, there is a book out about the dunmer of Windhelm, written by a dunmer I assume, and it seems like the dunmer really did expect to get a royal treatment. About 50% of it was more like "Because we're not being treated as if this was Morrowind, we're going to throw a fit everywhere and overpopulate the hell out of you!"

When the Dunmer in Windhelm were complaining about Nord bigotry, all I heard was a scratchy voice sneering at me: "Outsider."

Looks like it's going to be a looooong time for the dunmer to shove their superiority complex where the sun don't shine. But, that one dunmer mage in the college seems very nice, though she needs to work on her experimental spells some more.

I think that merchant was a High Elf. There's two other Altmer who appear to be doing fine, as well.

So the Altmer can get along with Nordic Great War veterans, but Dunmer can't?