I was looking around for a topic on this and didn't find anything (apologies if I missed it--I'm pretty new here), so here goes. In the Gameinformer article on combat posted at the beginning of the week, they talked about bows and ranged combat. This line in particular jumped out at me.



(Context: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/01/24/skyrim-building-better-combat.aspx?PostPageIndex=3 )

I hope I'm reading this wrong, but it seems to say that... well, if you keep a bow at full draw, it will continue to get more powerful? I don't understand this. I seem to remember hearing elsewhere a perhaps more nuanced discussion of this, where it was said that it would take longer to draw back the bow, and you had to wait for that full draw if you wanted to get a full-strength shot. That sounds more reasonable and more realistic. In fact, in the interest of realism, I think you should need a certain strength (combined with marksman skill--after all, technique is important) to draw back stronger bows. After all, the power of the shot doesn't come from some mystical source--it comes from the archer putting energy into the bow that it then released all at once. If you're not strong enough to put that energy in, you're not going to be able to fully draw that bow (and you're probably not going to be able to string it, either, but that would be going a bit too far, maybe).

Anyway, I hope the GI article was just poorly written and Skyrim isn't really going to have bows that "supercharge" the longer you keep them drawn.

Does anyone have any clarification on this? Thanks in advance for comments/insights.

It will either be as you say like they can release the shot early but it won't be full power or it will be like if you hold it an extra second or so you get a little more power. Of course the extra damage will be dependent on Marksman skill and be capped if they do this because BGS knows what they are doing.

I don't know if there has been any confirmation that it wasn't an infinity charging death stick, but I think that Beth knows what they are doing with regards to the combat. I doubt it will be so ridiculous and the most likely system seems to me as you pulling the string back and if you release before the bow is pulled back all the way only a fraction of the max damage will be done.

That makes sense. And I do have faith that they know what they are doing. It was just a bit of a jolt for me when I saw that in the article, because it seems to say something different.

Of course not. Bows will have a limit to how much power you can draw from them.

I agree with you 100%. I'm an active archer myself, and that statement made no sense whatsoever. It works the way you describe it, so I hope it just takes longer to draw the bow and doesn't 'supercharge' once it's fully drawn. Holding it longer could marginally improve your aim, but a skillful archer releases as soon as the bow is fully drawn with very little aim time.

And like you say, there needs to be different 'strength' categories for bows. The stronger you are, the bigger the bow you can handle.

It's not trying to be realistic. The system is used in every other videogame (hold x to charge falcon punch/jump higher/shoot a bigger laser/get to Fable magic lv. 3/prep for strong attack/etc.. It's a very game-y thing and works very well because of it. Feels that much more satisfying.

I agree with the OP, although viewed only as a gameplay mechanic I don't think it's as jarring, and certainly not for anyone with no experience of real archery (I have only a little).

However, I do hope the strength of the "draw" is capped depending on the bow used, and perhaps influenced by the character's strength; a recurved daedric monster ought to max out a lot higher on the pull than a bow made from lesser materials and meant for lesser arms.

I would assume is that basically, drawing back the string more increases the damage of the bow, which makes sense, and wouldn't be that different from what you got in past Elder Scrolls games. Though it sounds like the string takes longer to pull back so such a mechanic is more relevant, as you might have a reason to consider firing before its fully pulled back, sacrificing damage to shoot more quickly.

Of course, I could be mistaken and they're going for something like the charging mechanic some games use on certain attacks, which wouldn't be the first thing I'd expect to see with bows, but wouldn't bother me much if it works well in the game. I don't play the Elder Scrolls for a realistic archery simulation, in the end.

Bows are more powerful, but arrows is more costly and therfore it evens.

It doesn't matter that much, the whole charging thing, since I'll be using a crossbow. THAT'S RIGHT!

On a sidenote, Phoss is right. And I think the distance you can pull it back should be dependent on strength, and different bows should have different "distances"/strength caps - a higher cap for better/stronger bows. Holding it at your maximum will only increase your chance of hitting where you're aiming. Or maybe add some "sniper-nerves", you know when the aim isn't perfectly still when using your sniper scope in most FPS games and Metal Gear Solid. When you've held it for a while (maybe three-five seconds), the sniper-nerves will decrease until it's pretty much completely still.

So basically, hold the button until you reach your or the bow's strength cap. The first three seconds your aim will shake, then it'll be easier to aim.

Also, perhaps bows should actually have two parameters - maximum strength cap (the amount of strength required to pull it back completely for 100% damage) and accuracy. Some weak bows might have good accuracy, some strong bows might have bad accuracy and so on. Accurate bows won't vibrate as much when you try to aim. Also, your marksman skill will affect vibration/sniper-nerves.

They have to cap it to keep it balanced, it's logical to do so and I'm sure they did. Otherwise I can just stealth, draw, wait half an hour and take out the biggest baddie ever without any effort.

The way I see it they'll make it like Duke Patrick's archery mod (that's the mod they mentioned, the one that inspired them). It takes longer time to draw the bow to full power (otherwise you do pitiful damage) but in return it will do more damage. Think of it as a sniper rather than a low caliber SMG. That's how I understood it.


Now this bit is speculation on my part: stamina seems to play a bigger role this time around so my guess is it will draw your stamina the longer you hold it (mages have mana, rogues and warriors have stamina). So at low levels you might have little time to actually draw it to full power, aim and hit before you run out of stamina in which case I assume you'll release your arrow prematurely (yup, fully intended pun). This is an incentive to increase your marksman and maybe your strength if it actually influences your drawing power.

That makes very little sense. How would those two things be related?

Yes, bows will be more powerful, although I thought they were plenty powerful in Oblivion.

Yes, arrows will be more expensive, but that's an entirely unrelated subject. It's more of a realism feature, that you don't just chuck arrows at everything and carry around hundreds of them. It's more of a financial things than anything related to the power of bows.

Yea I hope they were incorrect in that statement. Keeping a 70lb bow at full draw is a lot of work. Your arms would start to shake, and your accuracy is destroyed.

I do like the idea of stronger/vs weaker bows tho, where a weaker bow is easier to draw fully, and therefore faster to shoot.

Agree here, no supercharge but the option to release before fully drawn with only doing a fraction of damage.
Now to balance let hard to draw bows drain fatigue then you hold them, also if you are hit with some strength (staggering?) it will cancel your draw.

No supercharge but I'd love an overdraw perk.One that damages the bow and that can even break it,but shooting a 1-hit or armor piercing shot.

Going arcade,it could run through the enemy or pin him to the nearest wall within a certain range... :drool:

I've been posting this in every archery thread so far. Skyrim's archery will be based on Duke Patric's Combat Archery mod for Oblivion. It was a mod developed to add realism, not to just make bows "stronger". Before speculating, check out what that mod does and you will have a pretty good idea how archery will work in Skyrim.

It says "As in Oblivion..." It will probably be the same system as Oblivion where you cant just press the attack button. You have to hold it down until the bow is fully drawn back to get maximum damage.

Thanks for all the replies and ideas. And thanks to those who mentioned Duke Patrick's archery mod. I did check that out, and if Skyrim archery is based on that, I think we're in pretty good hands.