Considering their population is 700,000, they could have about 140,000 at the maximum.

That's as of 2241. So now you must add Northern California, southern Oregon, western Nevada, and the Baja to that popularion total.

To go with the above, I believe the NCR also drafts their soldiers, so probably 1/4 of the NCR is apart of the military. With all that land, I assume they have a military total of at least 300,000.
I assume the reason why we don't see 300,000 troops, is due to all the territory they have, meaning the NCR military probably acts as the local police force all over their land.
NCR probably has more troops, and tons of civilians.

This si true, but those areas are quite obviously going to be less populated since they are "frontier" or "wild country" and less developed. Their total population in no way exceeds 1.5 million souls, that would be the most generous estimate.


Your countries economy would collapse if you drafted nearly 1/4 of your civilians. Unless your country is a stratocracy, but last I checked the NCR is not a sratocracy. Taking the most generous estimate of 1.5 million, and giving it an incredibly generous near the point of total economic collapse of 1 in every 5 persons in the army, the military would be 300,000, but that is the most generous estimate. I highly doubt 1/5 NCR citizens are in the armed forces, and 1/4 citizens are definitely not in the armed forces.

Maybe not 1/5 being in combat roles, but I can see the draft going that high when taking other roles into consideration (logistics, supply and support, comms, medical, science r&d, transportation, engineering, MPs...) Just look at Israel irl, almost EVERY citizen has served a term of 2 years or more in the IDF.

San Francisco had alot of people, The Den, Klamath, New Reno and so on. Then you also have to figure that it was 40 years ago, so the population would double or come close to doubling. Which would give you at least 1.4 million people.

True, they may not be armed forces, but there is reserves. While 80,000-100,000 could be on duty, the over 200,000 could just be doing side jobs for the army, until they are entirely needed.

Reserves could be doing anything. So ranch hands for the Brahmin Barons could be reserves. Shopkeepers could be army reserves, etc.

But due to how they view the Legion I wouldn't be surprised if they had a low reserve count.

So mcr has bigger numbers and better tech and has won against the bos by basically having more men than the bos had plasma cells.
The legion has lesser numbers and wayy lower tech and has still won against the bos as well.
The ncr and legion have won quite a few battles against each other.

So basically if the legions able to defeat the same peoe the ncr can with lower numbers and less advance tech...wouldnt that really make the ncr the weakest? Since with all ots superior tech and numbers, the legion is able to match it for blow for blow?

Like for example we have an archery contest. One guy comes out with a high dollar bow thats got a scope and enhanced strings and a fiber optic bow. His competotor is someone whos made their own bow thats as average as possible, no grips, nothing fancy just bow and string. They make the same amount of bulleyes, whos the better shooter?

No army can match the brutatality and discipline of Caesar's Legion. They are promoted by making it through battles alive and proving their worth. No other arym does this. The Enclave would be the onl other major threat but there isn't much of a threat left...

The Enclave.

The what? The people the NCR and the Lone Wanderer walk all over like a rug? Hahahaha - that good one.

the 700,000 figure was 40 years ago? I thought that was the actual Vegas statistic, either way as I said I suppose its possible to have somewhere around 1.5 million. But 200,000 in reserves, please that would be 1/7th of the population, that's definitely not happening, even if it were, the NCR doesn't have the ability to even arm half of those soldiers.

The Enclave. If it wasn't for those meddling kids.....

But anyway, when judging the best military, you need to factor in the what ifs. The only, ONLY way the Enclave is stopped is by the FO equivalent of Luke Skywalker. Both times.

Can you say the same about NCR? Or Legion? Nope. Those two factions have all kinds of problems, from food, equipment, training, etc etc. The player can neither aid or hinder them, and they can still fail as a military force.

Enclave has none of those problems. BoS number 2.

I don't think I understand the logic here? You're saying because the Enclave is only destroyed by the main character of FO2 that they are indestructible, whereas the NCR can fail because the main character never destroys them. I suppose then that the most powerful post-apocalyptic military group is whichever one the writers favor.

I'm saying they are the best military, and only lose because of Luke.

The NCR and Legion, on the other hand, have a ton of problems. Even if you help them, it doesn't fix their problems. Sure, you could help them win a battle, but their military still svcks. Not just their training and gear, but their tactics and strategy is flat out awful.

On the other hand, the Enclave has none of those weaknesses, save for perhaps overconfidence.

This is all based upon current canon events. Could NCR or Legion turn it around? Sure. But the greatest and most effective military is Enclave and then BoS.

But they could only win in the first place because they created a bio-weapon that can kill everyone else on Earth.

I mean I guess you can count that as a component of military strength but it seems rather cheap.

Well, a bio weapon is tech. Not that I agree with all of the Enclave strat and tactics, personally I think a land occupation expansion blitzkrieg with superior tech and training would have worked just fine, but whatevs.

I'd count this as a point in their favor.....

A cheap win or not, the fact remains that they had this type of biological warfare and produced it on their own. The type of technology and development capabilities at the disposal of the military force is certainly something to consider at least.


Actually. That's pretty much true.

We can argue about whether or not the Legion or the NCR is a better force overall (for example) and who would win realistically, but at the end of the day it comes down to the writers pleasure.

Who they want to win will win.

NCR can only be as effective as the leadership allows for. A better question would be which of the larger forces are most effective given the leadership they have. Legion hands down... no bureaucratic red tape, a people , literally bred to wage war. A cohesive single minded war machine progressing and consuming all in its path. Love them or hate them, the legion are good at what they do. As long as they have the right people in leadership. IF that falters the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. NCR are similar although their units in a general sense function more akin to frumentarii , small contained groups which are able to act independently and as a greater force as long as chain of command is kept intact, True the rangers are a force to be reckoned with, but not by themselves, and without clear leadership the main force fails to deliver or act .Given that Legion has already infiltrated many aspects of the Mojave, from spies, moles , small raiding parties etc... NCR has already lost before it begins.

which the writers placed in our hands /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

But ya I agree, it all depends on what the writers choses what happens afterwards in the years to come to see how well the factions become. But also ive realized that even though fallout theme seems to be rebuilding, it also seems the theme is that things must eventually end. Look at the great war ending the old war, the masters aemy ending, the enclave ending, existence in vaults ending, excistence in our homes ending, etc etc.

I think no matter whos the strongest, it dosent matter because their day in the sun will come to an end. The ncr thru civil war and the legion thru civil war as well.

The main character is the strongest military force in the post-apocalyptic wastes!

Wherever he meddles, he wins!

Pst, you all humor me /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Obviously Lyons' BoS is the superior faction by far, as they have a super-indestructible giant death robot AND super alien tech that can vaporize anything from orbit. The Lone Wander is by far the most powerful person in the wastes due to his 9+ SPECIAL! Of course, if the events of Fallout 3 did not happen then @NCIENT @LIENZ ?!? would stil still win, because they are all powerful, started the Great War, and can only be destroyed by a super-wanderer with a Lazer Rifle. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Don't you just love how all of this is absolute cannon due to Bethesda's 'amaaaaazzzzziiimnnggg' writing. I <3 TH...

Take it down a notch, chuckles. Interplay created Brotherhood of Steel, in case you forgot. Remember that game?

Feral Ghouls. They'll just wait it out.