No they weren't, they were tactically superior (Blitzkrieg, armoured divisions instead of tanks in infantry support role, interplay between air and ground forces, etc.). Technically the French tanks were superior to German tanks during the invasion of France. The T-34 and KV-1 Russian tanks were far superior to anything the Germans had once they got into conflict, the reason why Germany had such success at the outset of the war was basically because of the purges by Stalin in the military leaving its armed forces without any proper tactical command. The famous Panther and Tiger tanks only came as a response to these tanks later in the war, however never in the numbers needed to off set this technical imbalance. During most of the war the Panzer IV was actually the main German battle tank (inferior to the T-34's and KV-1's and on par with the American/British Sherman's) and panther's and tigers were limited in numbers.

In this I do agree with Muggy that tactics are equally important to technology and numbers. However I would never say tactics dictate who wins first, Germany was tactically far superior to its enemies for most of the war, yet they lost anyway as technology and numbers defeated them. Also (battle field) tactics is quite different from campaign strategy, I'd say Germany messed up there by eventually having to fight a three front war (French, Italian and Russian fronts).

I'm still baffled the NCR is winning with such a landslide, given how piss-poor their situation is in New Vegas, and how both House and the Legion have ample opportunities to beat them...

I mean the Platinum Chip for example. House knew about it; it was his playing card. He intended to use it to turn the tables. Benny knew about it. He wanted to do the same, but with him in charge. Caesar obviously knew about it too. It's heavily implied Ulysses was set up to intercept the chip delivery, but ONLY because of you did this plan fall through. The NCR? No [censored] ing clue what the chip is. They never find out. Their intel is abysmal.

True, but they are arguably the strongest simply because of its size, power and influence. New Vegas is but one place in the post-nuclear wasteland, they are pretty poor there indeed.

However they do seem to be the most organized and are actually closest to being a civilization rather than a grouping or faction. It could also be that knowledge on Ceasar's territory is limited and this causes the imbalance, however once Ceasar dies it all remains to be seen whether the new 'Roman empire' will not fall apart. House only seems interested in New Vegas and would thus always remain, at most, a city-state which could never rival the NCR in terms of numbers and resources. The Brotherhood is simply a grouping or faction with limited numbers and unless they change their ways (which is nowhere implied) they will also never grow big enough to compete with the NCR. They still trade for food and are not self-sufficient and this, imo, makes them very vulnerable.

Maybe because there is a decent amount of people who can see past the problems in New Vegas. /shrug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shrug:' />

I think it would be interesting to see who "second" strongest military force considering the rest of the choices are all rather close.

It's says the Enclave train off of US Army tactics which is one of the best trained armies in the world the NCR might train off of the same tactics I have no idea.

Right but I consider leadership to be an important factor when talking about the military.

Perhaps, for example, Mr. House would never wage war with the NCR because perhaps he might lose that battle....but he's smart enough to know this. Thus, his nation flourishes and lives on. The NCR mindlessly expands in every direction until they're dying for resources. Likewise, Caesar's Legion's military is supposedly equal in size, and as Cass would say, they're sure giving the Mojave a good [censored]ing.

But I agree. I might remake this thread once it's locked and include new polls that exclude the NCR.

This is a good point.

A military is as strong as the one(s) leading it.

You can have the best tactics, the best technology, the largest numbers, but you'll loose a many times if those in power are not very good leaders.

We can look at the Strips & the Legion as examples. Both have intelligent leaders who are good at what they do. House is using the NCR as a source of income while making it seem he is on their side. The Legion is controling their territory back east so well, merchants do not require body guards. As where when we look at the NCR the idea of "Someone has friends in high political places." comes to mind quite often.

With what we know, I would have to say the NCR. They are well equipped and organized, and function like a modern military organization would. I would love to know whats going on in Europe or Asia though. I feel like theres gotta be some people not to be messed with left in Russia somewhere, who would undoubtedly wreck the NCR if they ever met.

Even with leadership, it is hard to tell with the NCR. We know so much about them, yet we know so little.

Like how much does Kimball lead the army? And how many more generals do they have and who are they?

The NCR clearly has some competent leaders with various methods to get things done.

Republic of dave

The New California Republic is strongest.

• Soldiers are disposable to them. They have millions of people--they're not cutting down dents of their population with every battle.
• They can make their own weaponry.
• There's a statue of the Vault Dweller in Shady Sands (this is not a serious reason; I am just a softy for the Vault Dweller).

Both the Enclave and Lyon's guys used artillery in Fallout 3.... yet I didn't see any artillery /bonk.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bonk:' />

But yeah the NCR is the strongest by far. Then the Legion. Midwestern Brotherhood, unknown but were strong the last we saw them.

If I'm being brutally honest, I think the Talon Mercs.

Yes, maybe they're not a military force, but they go toe to toe with the Super Mutants where even the BoS daren't venture!

They also have a lot better equipment and training than the NCR and they are BRUTAL! No one wants to mess with them

You know you're comparing a group of Mercenaries to a nation with over 1 million people?

Yeah keep dreaming lol

I'm willing to bet a single squad of vet rangers will destroy all of Talon company with no losses.

Does the NCR have a navy? Or at least a fleet of merchant ships?? I'm sure they could build some pretty cool tall ships, but I wouldn't bet on them building steel warships.

Treating Mojave factions as though they won the wasteland, it would be Mr. House and his Securitrons. Why? Because giving electricity to the secret bunker boosts the region over which the signal can be sent, thereby securing the entire Mojave wasteland. With Mr. House's genius and vision, Hoover Dam could be brought up to nearly full production, Helios One could be stabilized and utilized as a backup power source or a weapon. I honestly think that Mr. House was not lying when he said he could have people in space again within 100 years. He would become the dominant power in that region, but would be limited to that region unless he built more bots and boosted or expanded the range of the signal.

Limited number of robots? Easily dealt with by the capability of the bots to repair themselves. New robots could be built with a little adjustment.

Their weapon capabilities far surpass that of any other faction except for the boomers, who (if canon establishes them as allying with Mr. House) could keep up the supply of ammo. With New Vegas churning up the amount of business that it does, money would never run out.

If the Mr. House ending is established as canon, in a game set 50 years later, we could very well be hearing about successful space expeditions and the perfectly secure and civilized region of the Mojave, ruled over with an iron fist by Mr. House.

No mention of an NCR navy. I would be surprised if they didn't have some small boats so they can travel to islands off the Coast of California.

It was a canonical ultrajet trip!

In the Mojave the Legion is the strongest.

In full force I'd say the NCR is easily the strongest. Although, the Midwestern BoS could potentially be stronger but I won't give them my vote until we find out what happened to them.

The BoS and Enclave at their peak (viruses not withstanding) are very capable for paramilitary fighting forces, but they are simply not large enough to defeat the NCR (probably not the Legion either).

Vegas can hold off against any attackers but it could never invade another country.

Lyons is a joke. Liberty Prime is his only real advantage and lore-wise the Boomers/Helios/Fat men/Howitzers could make short work of him. Assuming they could get him working again without their veggie growing scientist around.

Ashur's Pitt is the most capable faction in the east but it isn't going to be rivaling any of the great factions of the west any time soon.

I would like to think the NCR is the most powerful, but Liberty Prime's in game capabilities are phenomenal. No small arms can destroy him, even fat mans (men?). We can put conditions on the other factions that could tip the scales like IF the NCR has artillery which is capable of destroying liberty prime (the Enclave's artillery shells certainly couldn't), IF the NCR allied with the Boomers and were able to assume authority over the bomber and find someone who could fly it (big IF), and IF the NCR could use the ARCHIMEDES weapon.

My point being, if the NCR could defeat Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel, they would need to have the capability of destroying or disabling Liberty Prime, and that is a big IF which likely relies on resources which aren't canonically available to the NCR.

If I'm wrong please correct me

Liberty Prime was blown up, and there is no evidence that Lyon's is capable of fully rebuilding it.

Good lord, I thought Necromancy was outlawed in Cyrodiil!

Anyway, Post-Hoover Dam Mr. House.

Reasoning: His Moustache of Charismatic sixiness, oh, and the Mk II Securitrons or whatever, but mostly it's the stache.

The bear has the largest populace so they could take over just about anywhere or anyone but as others have said they are probably killing themselves doing so, I don't think there is anyone that could take down the NCR apart from themselves.

It remains to be seen what a post-cesar legion would turn out like and Mr.House has the potential to turn Vegas into a massive sprawling nation, for all we know this could just be his shady sands but it's just potential.

So i'll go with the tunnel snakes

True but i'm sure him and scribe rothchild allude to it being rebuilt one day so there is the seeds of comeback sewn in Bethesda's minds at least.