I have gotten tired of the typical mmo, grind up to next level, distribute points, get better equipment.
here are my thoughts on making the game more dynamic and immersive and less RPGish.
Would also be nice for a FULL PVP game since a noob can actually put in practice at anything and build up their skills

Experience, doesn't affect skills, make it a reputation of your time in the wastes, i like the level/karma Titles of FO3 for this
example :
You are looking at FurryLoaded: Alias; Firebug, Appearance; Expert Sapper, Reputation; Strider of the Wastes,
Fighting him would be a bad idea

Alias; self explanatory, would be funny if players could affect it or vote on it.
Appearance; appearance of chosen skill eg: rookie,loser, novice, adept, expert, veteran ;gun nut, sniper, thief, assassin, gambler
Reputation, your experience/karma title
Difficulty

Dynamic Skills, Like a curve having a minimum/maximum cap.
SPECIAL defines the base skill. than equipment, perks,traits and other modifiers. now we have a Minimum ability cap. like say 25%(1 in 4 chance)
Usage and practice allows improvement, stop using them and they will trickle down to the minimum.
practice, read book, shadowboxing, cleaning gun, quickdraw, typing, Thumbing cards/solitare, grabbing falling leaves(no difficulty) will raise ability 1/1000 a point.
a miss or a failure, 1/1000 a point.
critical failure, 1/200 point(but you might have hurt yourself, -1 dex til you healed)
success or a hit, 1/200pt(easy), 1/100 (difficult) 1/50(hard), 1pt(impossible)
double point for critical

Dynamic Skill example; Ability(25%base+ 0%dynamic) punching or shooting a fly(impossible) 1hp 100% evade physical.
If you can hit it you will get a full point, do it 275times(ignoring the misses), you will have a maxed dynamic ability(25%base+ 150%dynamic) which means 75% chance to hit the fly.
Using a Flame thrower only gets you 1/100 for easy difficulty(but you know how to pull the trigger better)

Item thoughts and suggestions:
AFK or offline, read a book, gain a point every day. (this would be real nice for us busy advlts that pay for a subscription)
Pipboy expansion; hologram projector. (Virtual Shooting Alley. unarmed trainer,repair practice, science, throwing) now you can practice and not waste ammo.

I've read this three times, and have no idea what this thread is about. I think my brain may have exploded somewhere along the way.

there is a reason some thing in MMO are done all the time, because it works, as fun it is to see someone trying to work on something new, this just sounds like making a system more complicated then it needs to.

I applaud your idea but I think it′s better they focus on working on other mechanics, like crafting ,combat etc.

Not every aspect of a game need to be ground breaking and new.

felt like that too.. but i think i understood some so i'll say what i have to say and if i misunderstood u, feel free to kick me in the nuts.

Experience, doesn't affect skills, make it a reputation of your time in the wastes, i like the level/karma Titles of FO3 for this
example :
You are looking at FurryLoaded: Alias; Firebug, Appearance; Expert Sapper, Reputation; Strider of the Wastes,
Fighting him would be a bad idea

first off i wouldnt want to read all that and when im done he's killed me already but second.. just seeing someone and going "i recognise that armor.." then seeing the name "oh schite, thats firebug!" and running off is the sort of reputation and "function" that to me is better than all quoted above. im hoping gamesas makes it very easy to make different looking character for this soul purpose.
the thing that bugged me the most here was that u think ppl who play more should be better cause skill shouldnt be a factor and this just shouldnt apply.. in any game!
im really too tired to understand the rest so i'll just leave it there In gaming terms... Life's a die, then you bich.

sorry Indus, alight let me simplify it.

Back in the day we had Tabletop, we used numbers because it was the only way to calculate percentages.
we have computers now, we don't need to see them. nowadays gamers are so anol about numbers and constants that they lost the ability to figure it out from appearance. the less you know, the more you have to find out = FUN! , than there are those that have to have a walk through, or powerlvl.

No more Level up, distribute stat points.
Experience should be like Reputation points. Experience should be wisdom, your knowledge/age in the game, your rank and Title as a Wanderer of the wastes. not a number.
This is your respect, your fame or infamy. it should have nothing to do with body or your skills. but can affect what you have access to.

Now on to skills.
I might want to be able to be a lvl30 Good karma guy that has never killed anything.
How can a Pacifist Level equally as fast as an Aggressive person?

how to do this? skills go up from using them. like working out a muscle.
Practice, even failure, improves skill. Not using a skill will let them Dull, but never get useless.(unless you lose an arm, now you just have to practice twice as hard)

For example, you throw a grenade into a bang of raiders, BOOM! 5 get blown to pieces. did your skill improve from 5 kills? no, you only threw one grenade. (your reputation as a raider killer will go up for 5 easy kills, and you get the damaged loot)

now how do you improve a skill if you have no ammo, nothing to hack, fix, or lock pick?
that's where AFK/Offline items like books and holodisks come in.
for active practice you have the PIPBOY can come in. or if you aren't a vault dweller, practice items like
a BB gun, rubber band gun, slingshot catapult, dissect anything you can find like a human or an animal.

Your BASE Skill is decided by your SPECIAL, perks, chems and other modifiers.
Dynamic Skill points are added to the BASE skill. its a slow process, all your skills are always degrading albeit slowly. back to the BASE.
You can gain 1pt a day AFK/Offline reading a book/holodisk or have a Teacher.
Novice 1-40, Advanced Beginner 41-80, Competent 81-120, Proficient 121-160, Expert 161-180, and Master 181-200.
skill gain by practice and use will be faster.
if you try 200,000 times you will master it (eventually you will have success)
if you are successful 4000 times you master it. (success breeds improvement)
if you do something difficult 2000 times you master it (improvement breeds Innovation)
It you do something hard 1000 times you master it (innovation breeds consistency)
if you do the impossible *with luck* 100 times you are a master at it (consistency is automatic)

I still don′t see how this is in any way better then a classic xp and level system, with a XP system you get little carrots that keep motivate you, it gives something tangible and measurable that tells you how well your doing, and levels? There the sugar coated, high vitamin carrot that makes ya feel better and stronger and ready to take on the next challenge.

well chances are good the Engine is already up and being debugged. so my suggestions are useless.

but looking at it. I hope it's more Old school RPG where if i pick up a nade and throw it i have a chance of fumbling it since i never thrown anything.
now what my Dynamic skill idea means is if i spent a Week throwing rocks, i have a good chance of Getting that nade away from me and where i want it to go.

now for the Sugar coated carrots. so you like to just be VizoR lvl 10?
I personally like the Title based off Lvl and Karma. (but either way if i had 20 lvls over you i would only have a slight advantage from perks and traits, now its a matter who worked on their skills more, not who killed more high XP NPCs)

We can only hope for high appearance customization.
I just hope i don't have to have 10pts into INT for max skill points
otherwise i will make Doctor Hyde(think the Incredible HULK on drugs lol)

didnt say it should be based on levels, i actually prefer skill. just dont like the fact that someone can annihilate me ingame just because they can play it 24/7 and according to you THAT would make them better than someone who can only play a few hours. this is mostly cause i played alot of FPS games In gaming terms... Life's a die, then you bich.

---let me sum it up:


i am old, challenge is good, say no to instant gratification.


skills based on actions, meaning you got skill for stealing/killing/whatever and each skill will get better only by working on it i.g. stealing stuff makes stealing skill better (so no first degree in repair and science by empty a whole towns pockets)
and since no general exp, quests completion will give you reputation or something that will advance you further here...


examples of the above 'skills based on actions'


[/quote]
some MMORPG mechanics.

---end


i'll agree on the first part.

i am not sure that 'skills based on actions' is good mechani, it will create a repetitive gameplay, basically allowing you to be come god at everything if you have enough time (or manage to create a bot )
besides the problems you wish to address are not such an issue since most players dont spend point left and right and prefer to make an optimized char to their game style ...


at the moment the MMORPG i consider to be the best "role model" in terms of mechanics for FO is age of conan MMORPG a M rated game. (since i doubt that eve online idea will be considered here)

I agreed with most of furry's ideas.

Levelling up to max is arguably the most fun part... but after you're maxxed??

I don't think anyone suggested u should be maxxed in ALL skills. That would svck.

When u create your avatar u get a LIMITED number of points to spend on SPECIAL/Skills/Perks. You can be an extreme master at one thing (nearsighted yet yet charismatic spy anyone?) to a medium armoured footsoldier who's a decent shot and not bad at computer hacking.

Dying should be among the least "punishable" stuffups.
Like trying to talk your way into a raider outpost after you've killed 30 of them over the last 4 days (this could also involve a quick death lol)...
Or trying but failing to pick a HARD lock when u know you're not THAT good. Some edges need to be blurry to make it challenging... Anyway i could go on forever so won't : )