[WIPz] Suggestions for Morrowind Patch Project : III - Morrowind

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:20 pm

I finally tracked down this thread! Nice of you to keep the project going, Quorn!

In regards to the question of "fix" vs. "tweak", it's a sort of grey area. Things like making it so the Berserkers and Fryse Hags wear their bear and wolf armor is a "fix" to me, but others could see that as a "tweak" (since it affects gameplay by making them slightly harder to kill).

Things along those lines (i.e. things that affect gameplay in any way) might be considered "tweaks", but I personally feel that the ones so far are necessary. When you made it so Arille actually sold those scrolls and potions he claimed were so popular, or when Ajira sold the booze she said she sold, those were "fixes" to me, but again others could see them as "tweaks", since you could now buy items you previously could not.

So far, I don't think you've done anything too "tweaky", but that's my personal opinion.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:07 pm

Sorry, I'm not able to find out whether this was already handled or not.

On the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Alchemy for the stats for SecretMaster's Alembic/Retort/Calcinator, it gives values of less than the Grandmaster's variants.

Although I see that it also says that you can't get these without cheating (maybe other mods are including them?) their values are obviously not sensible, and should at least be more than the Grandmaster's variants. As for what they should be, I'd look at the trend in value for each type of item, but you could always pick something simpler e.g. x2 Grandmaster's value.

Yep, this was addressed. ^_^

Two things :

1) There is a one-sided wall in Desele's House of Earthly delights. When viewed http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5160/frontyfw.jpg, it is plain. When viewed http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4600/backbjx.jpg, well, it is not?

2) Inns and shops in Molag Mar have no signs nor banners (This one may be intentional. Does the lore provide a reason for this?)

1) Haha, nice find! I'll fix it.
2) It might be because Molag Mar is a Temple canton.

There's a floating jug in Arille's Tradehouse - on the top floor near the stairs.

I'll fix it. ^_^

When you talk to Trebonius there is a topic then about House Telvanni, even if you're not a mages guild member.
I clicked on that topic as non-mages guild member and i got the message DELETE (in capital letters)
Probably it is the intention not to talk about telvanni when you're not a mages guild member (i guess so), but that Delete message is quite annoying.
It should be better to use a different topic, delete it entirely or use the old method (even if non-mages guild trebonius will say that house telvanni is the enemy)

Hmm, I'm not sure if that is from this project, but I'll look. I re=did a signifigant ammount of work on this project to remove deleted dialogue from the earlier versions. I'll certainly check through it, but this project doesn't delete dialogue.

I finally tracked down this thread! Nice of you to keep the project going, Quorn!

In regards to the question of "fix" vs. "tweak", it's a sort of grey area. Things like making it so the Berserkers and Fryse Hags wear their bear and wolf armor is a "fix" to me, but others could see that as a "tweak" (since it affects gameplay by making them slightly harder to kill).

Things along those lines (i.e. things that affect gameplay in any way) might be considered "tweaks", but I personally feel that the ones so far are necessary. When you made it so Arille actually sold those scrolls and potions he claimed were so popular, or when Ajira sold the booze she said she sold, those were "fixes" to me, but again others could see them as "tweaks", since you could now buy items you previously could not.

So far, I don't think you've done anything too "tweaky", but that's my personal opinion.

Thanks for the input. I've been very judicious with the fixes implemented. ^_^

---

As for updates, I did thoroughly go through dialogue yet again, this time adding proper, albeit redundant, filtering to quest progression topics, which will prevent any other plug-in that introduces new dialogue from triggering those topics, very helpful with projects like LGNPC. Caught a number of bad filters and errors along the way missed previously too. Also fixed the valid issues reported in the thread. All books have been corrected too, so the Morrowind Text Patch is now fully implemented.

Keep reporting issues encountered! ^_^

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:31 pm

Sorry, I'm in a hurry and just saved time by not checking whether this is already reported or the right thread, but:
Telvanni Councilors seem to have very little to say with the morrowind patch. My Telvanni character (who just finished rescuing Mehra Milo) just has two topics to choose from: Chores and Nerevar. The annoying thing about this is that - asking Neloth for chores - the topic "Drake's Pride" doesn't get available anymore. It is simply not hyperlinked. So I'm stuck with "I'm interested in an artifact called Robe of Drake's Pride." and no option to accept the quest. (I also didn't find any work-around yet except disabling the patch. :-/)

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:22 pm

As for updates, I did thoroughly go through dialogue yet again, this time adding proper, albeit redundant, filtering to quest progression topics, which will prevent any other plug-in that introduces new dialogue from triggering those topics, very helpful with projects like LGNPC. Caught a number of bad filters and errors along the way missed previously too.

Maybe you caught this in your latest sweep, but I did not see this particular problem listed among the corrections made by either version 1.6.3b or version 1.6.4.

The bottom two entries for the topic "kill me" (as it pertains to the quest FG_TongueToad) are not filtered for that quest. This is apart from the fixes already enacted for this quest. The issue is if the player learns the topic via a mod, he/she could speak with Tongue-Toad on the topic and trigger the official quest out of sequence and even without being a member of the Fighters Guild. Add filters Journal: FG_TongueToad >= 10 and Journal: FG_TongueToad <= 50 (or whatever the new index is for that previous bug) and the matter should be fixed.

It is almost as if Bethesda designed Morrowind without any idea that mods could be made for the game. :rolleyes:

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:08 pm

I posted this in the other MPP topic, but perhaps it belongs here.

Ever since I installed the patch I get an error with Morrowind Enhanced. Even though I have it loaded when I start Morrowind, as soon as I can control my character I get a message box saying Morrowind Enhanced.exe isn't loaded. Is Morrowind Enhanced incompatible with MPP, and if so do you know how it could be fixed?

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:50 am

I am using a localized version of MW and UFP greatly screws up my dialogues and overall naming. Could you release locale-specific changes (spelling and naming) as a separate file, so it would be possible to install just gameplay fixes?

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:59 pm

chaos_effect: What did you install, MCP or MPP? I've answered on the MCP thread.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:10 am

chaos_effect: What did you install, MCP or MPP? I've answered on the MCP thread.

I feel like an idiot... I looked at the title and misread them as the same. I installed MCP >_< Sorry

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:18 pm

Sorry, I'm in a hurry and just saved time by not checking whether this is already reported or the right thread, but:
Telvanni Councilors seem to have very little to say with the morrowind patch. My Telvanni character (who just finished rescuing Mehra Milo) just has two topics to choose from: Chores and Nerevar. The annoying thing about this is that - asking Neloth for chores - the topic "Drake's Pride" doesn't get available anymore. It is simply not hyperlinked. So I'm stuck with "I'm interested in an artifact called Robe of Drake's Pride." and no option to accept the quest. (I also didn't find any work-around yet except disabling the patch. :-/)

I'll check this out, it could just be that I was overzealous in filtering.

Maybe you caught this in your latest sweep, but I did not see this particular problem listed among the corrections made by either version 1.6.3b or version 1.6.4.

The bottom two entries for the topic "kill me" (as it pertains to the quest FG_TongueToad) are not filtered for that quest. This is apart from the fixes already enacted for this quest. The issue is if the player learns the topic via a mod, he/she could speak with Tongue-Toad on the topic and trigger the official quest out of sequence and even without being a member of the Fighters Guild. Add filters Journal: FG_TongueToad >= 10 and Journal: FG_TongueToad <= 50 (or whatever the new index is for that previous bug) and the matter should be fixed.

It is almost as if Bethesda designed Morrowind without any idea that mods could be made for the game. :rolleyes:

Yep, I found this one. From the looks of all the dialogue, the devs cut corners where they could to just get it done. ^_^

I am using a localized version of MW and UFP greatly screws up my dialogues and overall naming. Could you release locale-specific changes (spelling and naming) as a separate file, so it would be possible to install just gameplay fixes?

I'm not sure where to even begin with that. :confused:

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:25 am

Okay, a stupid little gripe on my part, but it bugs me.

This is what Molag Bal says when he cures you of vampirism:

"I see you have done as I asked, little vampire. It was not easy for me to obtain the cure, but I was able to pry it from Vaermina after some...discussion. You have earned it. Now I have eternity to punish my daughter for her defiance. Your curse is lifted. Yet...I wonder, will you miss the taste of blood on your lips? When you sleep, will you taste the salt and copper flowing over your tongue? Go, mortal. Bask in your precious sunlight."

:banghead: This isn't the first time I've seen this, and I can't believe I see this mistake over and over again: THERE IS NO COPPER IN HUMAN BLOOD. It's IRON. Iron IRON IRON! That's why blood is RED, it is from oxidized IRON. The hemoglobin is iron-based. If it was copper-based, blood would be green - like Horseshoe crabs and Vulcans.

Okay, phew, now that I've let that out... The suggestion is to change "copper" to "iron."

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:20 pm

THERE IS NO COPPER IN HUMAN BLOOD

uuhhhh...... what humans? This is a fantasy, maybe their humanoids do have copper, and no iron.

But yeah, you're probably right
Just wanted to play devil's advocate :evil:

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:33 pm

Okay, phew, now that I've let that out... The suggestion is to change "copper" to "iron."

Although I do agree that it sounds odd when he says it, saying that blood tastes like copper is part of the vernacular.
Copper and Iron taste very similar. But since copper is used to make pipes for water, more people identify any metallic tastes as being copper, even when they are not. Hence, the hemoglobin in blood tastes like copper because it's the metal we can readily identify with our tongues.

It wouldn't bother me if it was changed, or stayed the same.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:06 pm

I saw this in the CHS forum:

Sometimes, however, you don't get the quest at all if you've already done it. One example of this is the Imperial Cult Oracle's Quest Ice Blade of the Monarch. If you somehow end up in Rotheran, kill Llaren Terano, swipe the sword and free Adusamsi before Lalatia Varian gives you the quest, she skips straight to The Scroll of Fiercely Roasting, and you don't get the reputation boost you'd otherwise have gotten for completing the quest, even though you did all the (fairly hard, if you do it early) work.

Seems patch-worthy, if it isn't fixed already (couldn't find any mention of it).

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:14 am

A potential bug, needs to be confirmed. Applied the 1.6.4 Quorn mod to the GOTY PC version with Tribunal and Bloodmoon both active and restored a saved game that had been started without it. (Followed the instructions on running the patchscript.) Tried to initiate the "An Escort to Molag Mar" quest (MV_TraderMissed) by talking to Paur Maston but couldn't get any journal entries. Even tried using the console to add the 10, 20 and 30 journal entries one at a time but the "dangerous journey" topic would not come up, so he wouldn't follow me. Unchecked the data file and reloaded the save game, the dialog without the mod includes the "dangerous journey" topic.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:58 am

Okay, a stupid little gripe on my part, but it bugs me.

:banghead: This isn't the first time I've seen this, and I can't believe I see this mistake over and over again: THERE IS NO COPPER IN HUMAN BLOOD. It's IRON. Iron IRON IRON! That's why blood is RED, it is from oxidized IRON. The hemoglobin is iron-based. If it was copper-based, blood would be green - like Horseshoe crabs and Vulcans.

Okay, phew, now that I've let that out... The suggestion is to change "copper" to "iron."

Although I do agree that it sounds odd when he says it, saying that blood tastes like copper is part of the vernacular.
Copper and Iron taste very similar. But since copper is used to make pipes for water, more people identify any metallic tastes as being copper, even when they are not. Hence, the hemoglobin in blood tastes like copper because it's the metal we can readily identify with our tongues.

It wouldn't bother me if it was changed, or stayed the same.

I think it's just a saying, blood tasting like copper. I'll think about it. ^_^

A potential bug, needs to be confirmed. Applied the 1.6.4 Quorn mod to the GOTY PC version with Tribunal and Bloodmoon both active and restored a saved game that had been started without it. (Followed the instructions on running the patchscript.) Tried to initiate the "An Escort to Molag Mar" quest (MV_TraderMissed) by talking to Paur Maston but couldn't get any journal entries. Even tried using the console to add the 10, 20 and 30 journal entries one at a time but the "dangerous journey" topic would not come up, so he wouldn't follow me. Unchecked the data file and reloaded the save game, the dialog without the mod includes the "dangerous journey" topic.

I'll look into this. Thanks for the report!

---

I'll look at the Imperial Cult quest with the Ice Blade of the Monarch, too.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:03 pm

I'll have a hotfix update ready soon. It'll fix the bugs reported with the MPP, and also include some of the minor bugs reported. ^_^

The next beta is still a ways off though.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:07 pm

How should I release the quickfix? Should it be an add-on plug-in, or should it be incorporated into the project and made a minor updated release? There's advantages to both ways I suppose, so which is preferred?

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:17 am

How should I release the quickfix? Should it be an add-on plug-in, or should it be incorporated into the project and made a minor updated release? There's advantages to both ways I suppose, so which is preferred?

What's the hotfix? :embarrass:

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:41 am

What's the hotfix? :embarrass:

The hotfix just fixes up a few things that the MPP sort of broke or overlooked. A few dialogue conditions and such. Also adds a few more small things fixed.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:10 pm

The hotfix just fixes up a few things that the MPP sort of broke or overlooked. A few dialogue conditions and such. Also adds a few more small things fixed.

Well... if the new Beta - let alone release - isn't coming out for a while yet, then I'd suggest incorporating it into the main download. I mean, I don't mind downloading it again. And, it means people new to the patch (or even mods in general!) will have fewer plugins and load orders to worry about.

Just my two cents.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:38 am

just release it as a new update. it's not like the plug-in a few hundred megs or something.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:36 am

I agree, just update it. One less .esp to worry about.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:34 pm

How should I release the quickfix? Should it be an add-on plug-in, or should it be incorporated into the project and made a minor updated release? There's advantages to both ways I suppose, so which is preferred?

Probably best to keep it all as an esm. I'll throw my vote in with the rest and say go ahead and make a minor update release. :thumbsup:

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:46 pm

Yep, what they all said :nod:

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:55 pm

I also posted this in the wrong thread probably:

Reporting two very minor model placement faults from original game.

*Gnisis, there is a door to a mine on the levelled ground(along with the actual city) leading into the mountain. If you stand above and look at it from an angle then you can see that the mesh and ground creates a small gap small gap.
*At Diviath fyr's place where the end of one corridor does not align correctly. ( you levitate up to his level and if you watch from a skewed angle you can catch it). Note that I might have mistaken it for Theranas chamber... will double check.

I will try to get images and better explanation with name of adjoining cell later today, if you think it's worth fixing.

I have pictures, but right now they are pretty vague as well.