Superfluous skills : V - Skyrim

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:12 am

Role Playing Game.

No where do I see an A for atributes or an A for action. No where do I see a P for perks, or a S for skills. No where do i see a D for dragons, or a H for hardcoe.

And rpg is what the developers make it into. You pick who you want to play as, and ya play it. Adding or taking away places to put numbers to represent how good or bad we are at something is just a way to, infact, see how good or bad we are at something. It has little to do with actually playing your role.

Skyrim is an rpg. Not a rpgapsdh. I dont' really see what people are getting at when they say skyrim is more action and less rpg. You can still play your roll. You can still see that mountain over there, and walk up it. You can still go down into the dungion to kill things. You can save the girl, kill off the town. Whatever you want, you play your roll.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:15 am

So Todd says they are merging some skills together(cutting them out basically), cause they are superfluous/'not needed'. What I don't understand is, what is the point of this merging? Isn't this suppose to be an RPG after all? I can't see how removing certain skills will improve the game as an RPG.. RPG-players love stats,skills,and stuff, I know I do at least. If they want to improve on the RPG part, they should add more, not cut down..

And now I hear there's a rumour that they are cutting out attributes to.. That is on top of the removal of classes.. WTH! Why don't he just go all the way. "Ah axe skill and blade skill, that is superfluous!, let's merge them to weapon skill! HAH, I'm brilliant, I just improved the game! Oh look at all those magic skills, let's just combine them into magic skill, yeah baby!" :rock: "Wait a minute, why do we need these skills at all. Remove them from my sight!" I R genius

Is TES turning into an action game, because some people can't be bothered with the R-P-G part?

look at Daggerfall that had like 30 diff skills and 10 of them were languages, those were completely useless you could just have a rep system

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:57 pm

Role Playing Game.

No where do I see an A for atributes or an A for action. No where do I see a P for perks, or a S for skills. No where do i see a D for dragons, or a H for hardcoe.

And rpg is what the developers make it into. You pick who you want to play as, and ya play it. Adding or taking away places to put numbers to represent how good or bad we are at something is just a way to, infact, see how good or bad we are at something. It has little to do with actually playing your role.

Skyrim is an rpg. Not a rpgapsdh. I dont' really see what people are getting at when they say skyrim is more action and less rpg. You can still play your roll. You can still see that mountain over there, and walk up it. You can still go down into the dungion to kill things. You can save the girl, kill off the town. Whatever you want, you play your roll.

^^^

RPG does not mean it has to have 50 different skills.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:01 am

Role Playing Game.

No where do I see an A for atributes or an A for action. No where do I see a P for perks, or a S for skills. No where do i see a D for dragons, or a H for hardcoe.

And rpg is what the developers make it into. You pick who you want to play as, and ya play it. Adding or taking away places to put numbers to represent how good or bad we are at something is just a way to, infact, see how good or bad we are at something. It has little to do with actually playing your role.

Skyrim is an rpg. Not a rpgapsdh. I dont' really see what people are getting at when they say skyrim is more action and less rpg. You can still play your roll. You can still see that mountain over there, and walk up it. You can still go down into the dungion to kill things. You can save the girl, kill off the town. Whatever you want, you play your roll.

Yup. We're all hung up on the mechanics, and we forget what role playing really is.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:32 am

and really when it comes down to it, people want stuff simplified. Do you write in Binary? also a perk system is getting added that can break down skills into specific sections

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:53 am

and really when it comes down to it, people want stuff simplified.

Not really and stats/skills do make your role. Without stats its an action adventure game and everyones the same.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:08 am

and really when it comes down to it, people want stuff simplified. Do you write in Binary? also a perk system is getting added that can break down skills into specific sections

Almost forgot about that. Yes, they're condensing (read: NOT TAKING AWAY so everyone in this thread can stop saying that now) a few skills, but in return we're getting a perk system to add another layer of complexity.

I swear, people panic far, FAR too much over trivial things sometimes.

Not really and stats do make your role. Without stats its an action adventure game.

When did the complete removal of stats come into play here? If you're talking about the supposed removal of attributes, that's still a rumor that is very much unconfirmed.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:21 pm

Is TES turning into an action game, because some people can't be bothered with the R-P-G part?

This view is based on a misconception. It is based on your personal definition of what an "rpg" is and what an "action game" is. Saying Skyrim won't be an RPG based on your own definition of the term is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It seems like you are complaining for the sake of complaining.

No more crythreads please.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:15 am

Almost forgot about that. Yes, they're condensing (read: NOT TAKING AWAY so everyone in this thread can stop saying that now) a few skills, but in return we're getting a perk system to add another layer of complexity.

I swear, people panic far, FAR too much over trivial things sometimes.

When did the complete removal of stats come into play here? If you're talking about the supposed removal of attributes, that's still a rumor that is very much unconfirmed.

Someone said stats dont define your role, I disagreed.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:35 pm

Not really and stats/skills do make your role. Without stats its an action adventure game.

Not true. They're a way to see if your good or bad at something in a game world. Life, the only true rpg, doesn't have stats, or perks, or anything like that. You get better at something as you do it, some people are better at certon things when compaired to others, but there is no number to show for it. Its blatantly obvious when someone is better than another person. Numbers do not make the rpg, they make it easier to see what we're good at, what we do in our role.

One day, far off in the future when my kids are playing games, I'd like to see a game with no number representation. You could play through the game, and you could feel yourself get better, not watch a number go up thus unlocking other things that we are now deemed worthy to now do.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:44 am

I was just playing Morrowind and was getting frustrated that I couldn't hit this dude and we both stood there swinging our weapons like idiots. I do not like dice-rolls! The term rpg is misleading.

OMG I laughed out loud! Thanks! :rofl:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:25 am

Not true. They're a way to see if your good or bad at something in a game world. Life, the only true rpg, doesn't have stats, or perks, or anything like that. You get better at something as you do it, some people are better at certon things when compaired to others, but there is no number to show for it. Its blatantly obvious when someone is better than another person. Numbers do not make the rpg, they make it easier to see what we're good at, what we do in our role.

One day, far off in the future when my kids are playing games, I'd like to see a game with no number representation. You could play through the game, and you could feel yourself get better, not watch a number go up thus unlocking other things that we are now deemed worthy to now do.

This isn't life, its a game. Where you pick what your good at and what your weaknesses are when you make a character, those are stats.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:23 am

Because there's no similarities between swinging an axe and swinging a sword. What's the problem? you'll still be able to use the weapon you want, now you just have more choices. Remember how much it svcked to find a sweet sword in Morrowind/Oblivion just to be reminded how you can't use it because you're better with blunt weapons? Also, like others have said, nothing has been removed.

That's really not going to change in Skryim. The only difference is that you'll pick up that sweet sword only to realize you chose axe perks.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:41 am

Not really and stats/skills do make your role. Without stats its an action adventure game and everyones the same.

ok if you dont want anything simplified would you like 400 skills? some of them being completely stupid? or a combat system so complicated you have to kit 18 buttons to swing a weapon a different way? or how about instead of your weapon telling you how much damage it does you have to calculate it yourself? I know this a blown out of proportion, but still it is the same basic concept. I dont think everything should be condensed to 2 skills, but simpler is not always worse. Also perks makes everything more complicated, there is like 150 different ones (I think) there are a lot of combinations you could do for that

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:42 am

That's really not going to change in Skryim. The only difference is that you'll pick up that sweet sword only to realize you chose axe perks.

Very good point. I never actually thought of that.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:32 pm

I can't see how removing certain skills will improve the game as an RPG

You can't see it because you haven't played the game.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:53 pm

This isn't life, its a game. Where you pick what your good at and what your weaknesses are when you make a character, those are stats.

I have to agree with ResistanceKnight on this one! If it's ONLY "a game" then why do we all (hopefully) want to be immersed in it so much? For me, games like this are something between real life and "just games". I really go there in a sense...If you don't have the same feeling then (Xarnac) it is understandable that you see things the way you do...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:50 am

ok if you dont want anything simplified would you like 400 skills? some of them being completely stupid? or a combat system so complicated you have to kit 18 buttons to swing a weapon a different way? or how about instead of your weapon telling you how much damage it does you have to calculate it yourself? I know this a blown out of proportion, but still it is the same basic concept. I dont think everything should be condensed to 2 skills, but simpler is not always worse. Also perks makes everything more complicated, there is like 150 different ones (I think) there are a lot of combinations you could do for that

When has ES ever been like that, your exaggerating. Do I want Acrobatics back? Yes. Do I want spell creation? Yes.

I have to agree with ResistanceKnight on this one! If it's ONLY "a game" then why do we all (hopefully) want to be immersed in it so much? For me, games like this are something between real life and "just games". I really go there in a sense...If you don't have the same feeling then (Xarnac) it is understandable that you see things the way you do...

Stats dictate your role. They have a physical representation in the game. You cant play an ES game like real life, because you are not born, you make your character. He said: "I want a game where I just go out and do things and I get better. Not where stats dictate everything." Sorry, but you have to have stats dictate you skills because it is a game, not real life. Do we need to see a bunch of dice rolls? No, but thats what dictates the variables in the game, that actually makes the game more realistic.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:05 am

This isn't life, its a game. Where you pick what your good at and what your weaknesses are when you make a character, those are stats.

Stats are the representation of what we're good at and what we're bad at. Exactly. But what if we couldn't see them? Would that change anything? If stats were there, but we didn't know a number.

A role in itself doesn't need things like stats. The kindhearted swordsman could care less if his swordmanship was level 25 or 75. All he worries about is if he can help the next poor sole in Skyrim with his blade. Stats measure that, but the role itself could care less about the numbers.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:23 pm

Where you pick what your good at and what your weaknesses are when you make a character, those are stats.

If what your character is good at, and what her weaknesses are constitute her stats, then Skyrim still has stats. Even if it doesn't have attributes.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:28 am

Stats are the representation of what we're good at and what we're bad at. Exactly. But what if we couldn't see them? Would that change anything? If stats were there, but we didn't know a number.

A role in itself doesn't need things like stats. The kindhearted swordsman could care less if his swordmanship was level 25 or 75. All he worries about is if he can help the next poor sole in Skyrim with his blade. Stats measure that, but the role itself could care less about the numbers.

Exactly!

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:03 pm

Agreed, seems like they are dumbing it down for a more casual audience. Like the ES series doesn't have enough fans. I hope they don't "Mass Effect 2" Skyrim. id most likely be done with gaming if that was the case.

Yes, heaven forbid they "Mass Effect 2" the game and make it better.

Are arbitrary stats really how you define your character? Not the choices you make throughout your journey? Choices other than "swords or spears"?

You don't think that merging some of these things might allow for more roleplaying capabilities than before? Imagine your warrior has his mace (the weapon he has preferred to use throughtout the entire game because nothing is stopping him from doing so) knocked out of his hand and out of reach, is he really going to lay down and give up or is he going to reach for the sword on the ground next to him. Merging superfluous skills adds spontaneity and replayability to the game.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:32 am

oh look
it's this thread again

I'll just reserve this spot and come edit in my opinion in later seeing as this is, what? the third thread about this today?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:58 pm

When has ES ever been like that, your exaggerating. Do I want Acrobatics back? Yes. Do I want spell creation? Yes.

Stats dictate your role. They have a physical representation in the game. You cant play an ES game like real life, because you are not born, you make your character. He said: "I want a game where I just go out and do things and I get better. Not where stats dictate everything." Sorry, but you have to have stats dictate you skills because it is a game, not real life.

Ok, I agree that you have to choose some BASIC stats at the start...But after that, no picking this attribute or manually choosing that perk or anything like that. Simply evolve and grow with time according to things you do and how often you do them...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:26 am

When has ES ever been like that, your exaggerating. Do I want Acrobatics back? Yes. Do I want spell creation? Yes.

Daggerfall had like 30 skills and a lot of them were just redundant. A lot of them were languages. One of them was etiquette and another was backstabbing. Are those really necessary? and I was exaggerating yes, but only to prove a point that people would want a game simplified