Yes. You just have to figure out which one's stats you want to take priority. Load that mod's main plugin first. As a person in favor of SM's stats, I simply put bgMagicEv.esp in front of the entire SM setup. If you want L.A.M.E.'s stats, just keep BOSS default ordering of those two mods. Even if you use Supreme Magicka's stats, there is always that L.A.M.E. module for overwriting SM's summons (some of them.)

Don't know why not, because I'd give the same answer there as here: my reading of the lore says that they're organized entirely by consensus of whoever's in charge of the Mages Guild lately. Things move between schools, schools appear and vanish; there's really no underlying universal meaning to the structure, only theoretical groupings assigned by mortals based on effects that are easy to learn together. (Edited: rambling.)

Granted I haven't scoured TIL for sources on this, it's just the impression I've developed over the course of the series from in-game books, dialog and mechanical observations. Always possible I've missed something, and if so, please point me to it.



Except that it has to be cast on an object. Almost as if it's altering that object, to make it luminescent.

You certain that it isn't that way because of the Game engine limitations?

People in your thread.


Correct is, magic is magic, there is no innate difference between blowing something to pieces and call a Golden Saint from Oblivion. Galerion invented the schools for easier learning and understanding.

The schools though are three pairs of polar opposites. Three axes that form a threedimensional coordinate system (Axis 1: Destruction-Restoration, Axis 2: Conjuration-Mysticism, Axis 3: Illusion-Alteration). Every spell has a place on it - it can have zero on axes it doesn't have anything to do with.

Most magic effects are pretty self explanatory - example given the summoning of a Golden Saint. Others are tricky, like Absorb. It's at the centerpoint of the Destruction-Restoration axis, but that is because it loads equally high on both poles. This can't be, that's surreal - and therefore it was once placed in Mysticism in Morrowind due to this strangeness.

Changes of spell effects between games are not lore. Gameplay is not lore - if it were, then Cyrodiil, center of the Empire, would officially have only a fifth of the populace of a small island part of Morrowind. I've never seen anyone argueing for putting Command back in Conjuration.

The schools are pretty stable since they've got official lore, with some strange exceptions that were likely due to errors (Command) or genuine problematic cases (Absorb).

Either way, the schools regardless of how you look at them, group together spells by what they do. Not by knowledge of what you can do, but what they actually do. You don't become a better healer by blowing people to pieces, nor do strengthening yourself has anything to do with weakening the other. This is the Destruction-Restoration axis. Moving Resist magic effects from Restoration to Destruction, and Weakness from Destruction to Restoration, is maybe nice to get a new gameplay together, but has nothing to do with lore.

As for light, Illusion is not only the school of mind tricks, but also perceptive tricks often as the result of changing energies. Alteration is the school of physical change. If you make the light go all around you, so you're not visible, then it is a perceptive trick - and therefore invisibility is in Illusion. The same applies to Chameleon, Light and some other things. In Lore Illusion is described as "warping the imperceptible energies of light, sound, and mind ". See the first item on the list ? By using your logic to shove light into Alteration, you can also put Chameleon, Silence, and Invisibility into it. They all work like light .

Reasonable points, and a good rationale for being wary of changes to the school organization. I did make a deliberate decision not to move any spells between vendors, for similar reasons. So yes, I can definitely see your position on MagLite's lore viability. I thought you were coming at it from a "technical lore" angle, but "Galerion said so" is definitely a good enough concern to raise.

Heck, only my Destruction/Restoration changes were made on the basis of the effects seeming to be applications of similar techniques. The others are built on the concept that...


:D

Absorb in Mysticism is historical but never made sense to me thematically. Regardless, Mysticism needs something. Restoration needed something to replace it and like I said, moving Drains there made significantly more sense to me (irony, eh?). And putting light in Alteration is a long-time personal quirk... I moved it there in Morrowind because it was, well, Less Annoying. "It makes the targeted object physically luminescent" is an after-the-fact justification of not quite being like chameleon/invis; really I just wanted to get it out of the school which is otherwise concerned with subtlety, manipulation and stealth (Nightblades Don't Cast Light) and which already has a generally superior replacement (Night Eye), and chose to put it next to Feather, Water Walking, and the now-absent Jump for a one-stop "low-cost utility magic" splash.

Which, conventionally speaking, is where they belong (silence could go both ways). I've always been disappointed in this games Illusion school, they need to add a bunch of different effects to it next go around. But as an idea for SM in lieu of this conversation (probably thought about it before), but what about a 'mez' spell (basically a stun until the target takes damage, if you haven't played EQ or something similar) for illusion? Could go the LOTRO route and say its something about confusing the opponent in a riddle or any number of things really... Or at higher levels of illusion, be able to conjure wraiths that perhaps don't do damage but send opponents fleeing (or paralyzed) in horror as they see in it their deepest fears etc etc.

This is actually a really good idea. The rest of this spell school discussion is completely ridiculous.

Script problem...http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg24/Tomlong54210/?action=view¤t=ScreenShot153.jpg

This load order is slightly newer, but nothing related to your mod has changed between this one and the one I was using when I took the screen shoot (aside from load pos.)

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  EnhancedWeather.esm  [Version 1.3.6]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.71]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b1]07  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]09  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm0A  Better Cities Resources.esm0B  bookplacing.esm  [Version 1]0C  Progress.esm  [Version 2.0]**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp0D  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0E  DLCShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0F  Better Cities .esp10  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp11  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp12  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp13  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp14  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]15  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]16  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp17  EnhancedWeather.esp  [Version 1.3.5]18  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp19  MIS.esp1A  WindowLightingSystem.esp1B  AliveWaters.esp1C  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp1D  Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp1E  7lbsBedrolls-OBSE.esp1F  Fish!.esp20  P1DseeYouSleep.esp++  Regrowing Nirnroot - Dissappear Reappear.esp  [Version 1.01]++  VA_BetterGold.esp21  Living Economy - SI.esp22  Living Economy - Items.esp23  Cutthroat Merchants.esp24  sr_super_hotkeys.esp++  RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp**  mz_Shields_SI.esp25  Slof's Horses Base.esp26  Slof's Extra Horses.esp27  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]28  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp29  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.69]2A  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]2B  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2C  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp2D  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2E  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2F  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp30  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]32  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]33  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls.esp  [Version 1.1]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]34  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Creature Skins.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]37  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse RuneSkull OOO Loot.esp38  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]39  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.39c]3A  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]3B  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]**  TamrielTravellersHorseTextures.esp++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 1.0]++  FCOM_ArcheryRealSwords.esp  [Version 2]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 0.18]**  FineWeapons for OOO.esp**  RustyItems for OOO.esp++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]3D  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp3E  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp3F  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp40  Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop.esp41  za_bankmod.esp42  Blood&Mud.esp43  Origin of the Mages Guild.esp  [Version 5.1]44  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.9]45  FCOM_OMG.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_OMGSRT.esp  [Version 0.9.9]46  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.3]47  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.1]48  xulTheHeath.esp49  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp4A  XulEntiusGorge.esp4B  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]4C  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp4D  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]4E  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp4F  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3]50  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]51  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.1]52  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]53  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.1]54  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.2]55  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]56  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.2]57  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.esp58  xulPantherRiver.esp59  xulRiverEthe.esp5A  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]5B  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.2]5C  xulBlackwoodForest.esp5D  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]5E  Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp  [Version 3.2.0]5F  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]++  Enhanced Vegetation [100%].esp60  Slof's Dogs.esp61  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]62  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.1.0]63  SM Encumbrance and Fatigue.esp  [Version 2.51]64  RealisticForceMedium.esp65  RealisticMagicForceLow.esp66  RefScope.esp  [Version 1.3.0]67  EnchantmentRestore.esp++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp68  SM Bounty.esp  [Version 1.21]69  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.4]6A  Smarter Mercantile Leveling - Multi.esp6B  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 1.1]6C  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]6D  Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.esp6E  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp++  Slof's Manly Stride.esp6F  Dark Dungeons -  SI.esp70  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.esp71  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]72  nGCD.esp73  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp++  nGCD Skeleton Key.esp74  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 4.0]75  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]76  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.89]77  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]78  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]79  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]7A  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp7B  Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp7C  BCBravilB&M-Barrowfields patch.esp7D  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.esp7E  Better Imperial City.esp++  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp**  Real Lava 1.3.esp++  Visually Enchanted Fire.esp++  Visually Enchanted Frost.esp++  Visually Enchanted Shock.esp7F  Viconia.esp**  Last - Armor.esp++  Last - Horses.esp++  Last - Prey Faction.esp++  Last - Containers.esp++  Last - NPCs.esp++  My Faces - Companions.esp80  Bashed Patch, 0.esp81  Last - Cells&Worldspace.esp82  Streamline 3.1.esp

Supreme Magicka 0.89b Released - Apologies for the delay :angel:

Fixed the No Poison levitation effect ini. Hopefully fixed a script error, ini options added for turning on or off invisibility detection by enemy npcs, arena npcs and vampires. Spell Magicka progression will auto detect Oblivion XP and configure itself for compatability automatically.

Thanks for the update.
I'm using this mod for my new character.
I noticed that a special Nigh-Eye spell from M'raaj-Dar (Dark Brodrehood) is cost less magica compared to the normal Night-Eye spell we find in town even M'raaj-Dar Night-Eye spell is more powerful.

Edit. It's not price question but how many magicka used to cast the spell.

Erk TESNexus error again. 0 bytes file size.....

Yes I got the same error, but it works with the second server.

@Aylied_people/ShinRA88: Tesnexus take a while for the servers to finish uploading the files. Just be patient and they will be working eventually.

IIRC from what I read on the UESP a few months back, this is just the way the spell was in the Vanilla game. There are many other premade spells that cost more or less magicka points then player made equivelents. So there's no bug, it's just the way it is.

Thanks JagerX for the enlightenments.

For some reason I can't buy spells anymore from some of the NPCs. For example, I can't buy Open Very Hard lock from Orintur in cheydinhal, infact no option to buy anything from him as with most others there, shows up. And I know I haven't bought all spells from them.

That sounds like AI Packages running other then the ones that allow selling . Things to consider are time of day and location , Also Orintur is one of those npcs who travel outside the guild hall , during times merchentile options aren't avaible . If this is happening all the time it might be worth your while to have a look at you mod list to determine if something is ill-effecting this .

Well it is night time when I tried to buy from him. I will try the day time.

Also I'm one of those rare people with perfect tiny load orders that make you scratch your head wondering why such and such is happening when everything is in a proper order -.-.

Looking through TESview, the only conflicts is..bashed patch renaming all of SM's spells. To be honest, I'm not sure the purpose of that feature with the patch, but that's all that is affecting SM. Oh well, I'll just deal with it lol. The actual functionality of SM spells/spell effects/config settings works 100% OK.

Night time isn't good try around 2 in the after noon . I can't say 100% , but I can say 98.9999% its has nothing to do with SM

Thanks for the update

Are you going to add rest of races/birthsigns abilities to SM Spell Levelling anytime soon? Also am I the only one playing with that option turnd on? I see none else talking about that part though, you could really do better if you make khajiits night eye togglable. It looks so outdated the way it is, when we cant turn it off till it svck all your magicka. Also its incompatible with others mods that changes its issue, even with bashed patch, I know its strange.

How to disable spellleveling (birthsigns and races) at all? changed ini line to '0' and there are still upgraded versions of those abilities/spells in game.

For some reason using OMM I'm getting an error every time I try to activate Supreme Magica v .89. It says that I need OBSE v 16 or higher, but I have OBSE v17b. Could it have something to do with my Oblivion being downloaded through steam?

Well finding my email is just cheating you know . SM Spell Levelling does alot more than it used to be. Some abilities i felt would feel a bit weird to be levelled. Mainly the warrior and lady abilities bit difficult to decide on a balanced levelling mechanism. I might re-look at the kahjiit night eye some more though.




Hmmm are you using the latest OMM? Otherwise try a manual install of supreme magicka or use wrye bash install. If it still moans in game that OBSE isn't installed then your OBSE might not be correctly set up.

QALeveller can affect Wizard's Fury, Finger of The Mountain and sigil stones. Does SM touch all of these too? I remember seeing an option to level at least one of those items, but what about the rest?