There were news of upcoming update to Fallout 4 Survival difficulty some time ago, bringing more immersive experience of adventuring in the post apocalyptic wasteland.

While most of the changes (like fatigue, hunger, ammo weight etc.) sound great, I'm not really into "Manual and quicksaving are disabled. To save your game, you'll need to find a bed and sleep for at least an hour." part.

"No saving" policy works great when the game in question is initially built with this mechanic in mind. Like in XCOM and Darkest Dungeon, even if your party gets wiped, you can still carry on without loosing global progress and upgrades, or in Dark Souls save/load is naturally blended into the gameplay and narrative: you always have a chance to reclaim your lost souls and you don't loose items.

In Fallout 4 on the other hand if i die at the end of a quest like Reunions, then i just completely lost an hour of progress. Stepped on the mine? PC/game crashed? Time lost. Players can obviously sleep every 5 minutes, but that's just kills the immersion. I will gladly use sleep when my character is tired rather than sleep every time i'm about to enter some dangerous area like i'm having excessive sleepiness disorder.

My point is that removing some initial game mechanic like saving requires addition of something to compensate (e.g. failure or death doesn't equal game over). Otherwise it's better to leave the decision whether to save or not to players.

People need to stop beng frightened about the saving issue, it will be fun and feel more like a survival game

I mean, I've had months to hoard everything, collect everything, and become all powerful. Survival isn't going to take that character away. Just my opinion, of course, but I think it's going to be fun to not be able to do all of that. And if it's not, then I can always go back to normal operation and/or an old character.

I am leaving it to the developer to make the decision.


I will be happy if I can save anytime I want, and I will adapt if I cannot.

To be sure, it would be nice if this and fast travel were "options" for the player. I love hardcoe (FNV and modded FO3/Skyrim) and the survival difficulty to me is the only way to play (couldn't stomach how easy "very hard" was). To takeaway fast travel and saving anytime...uhhh some of us have a life past Fallout.

You are wrong.

All of us have a life outside FO4. Not some.

Technically yes. Read the last 20 posts in this forum and...questionable.

Another thread bemoaning the potential loss of "progress" in a video game. Is it really the end of the world if you don't complete every quest on the first try??


The most frustrating part is most of the complainers will end up hating survival mode altogether because of the increased difficulty, regardless of how saving works.

I have been ~trying~ out the new survival difficulty on my own. Only saving when there is a bed around, not fast traveling and whatnot and I have to say, the first couple hours are, indeed, fun. The hours after, IMO, are not. It becomes a running away simulator to the nearest bed. Maybe once the bullet sponge aspect of the enemies gets taken away it will be more enjoyable. I found myself not really trying to do any main story line missions and sticking to secondary locations and exploring. Having to replay an hour here and there because I couldn't find a bed and getting murdered (or committing suicide because I fell) makes the experience tedious. These are just my opinions.

Welcome to survival mode. It`s gonna be full of tedious things you have to worry about to survive. No pun intended.

I don't think I can stomach this debate again.

This is the best feature of the upcoming survival mode, the main reason Bethesda games have always been considered easy, because you can save any time you want and try forever in that instant. A change like this is really going to up the difficulty for those people crying constantly about it, a change that is not entirely cheap in the slightest unlike dmg sponges, a change that will actually make you be afraid of dying, giving you a real huge penalty for being careless. And you guys still want to take it off.

[censored] the basic needs like drink water or food, [censored] the cripple regen restriction, [censored] the changes in damage, the save on sleep is the real deal. I want them to proceed with it, I am sorry, even the original Fallouts were a piece of cake because you could savescum forever at any moment. Please Bethesda just for this time ignore your fans, ignore the people in these forums, don't remove this feature from the new survival mode, they are crazy they don't know what they are saying.

Agreed GECC101.

To all you who are trying to bad mouth the "complainers" on this post. If Bethesda announces you have to play sitting on top of your head with your controller (or keyboard backwards) for a true "survival hardcoe" mode experience. No saves and no fast travel equate to this in my experience and opinion. Instead take a page from FNV hardcoe. That is fun hardcoe mode. But you're right Bethesda can do anything they want with their own game and if ruining "survival" mode by taking away save anytime and no fast travel are what they want to do... .

Please, you can just as easily leave the combat difficulty mixed in with all the other good features "hardcoe" mode brings without requiring silly ridiculous restrictions on simple game mechanics. Did I mention FNV already? I won't have the time to play "the new survival mode" if I can't fast travel so therefore I have to drop to "very hard" which makes playing this game even more easy than it already is? Wow, good idea! And as Gecc101 said, this is as fun as it is to repeat 3 or 4 times 1 hour of gameplay

I thought we were gaming to enjoy the smaller things in life?

or just add a checkmark box in the hardcoe mode settings.

Souns like a threat.

Ok, let's take 2 scenarios:

I. No Saving Allowed in Survival:

- Players who OK with No Saves - having fun

- Players who NOK with No Saves - not having fun

II. Saving kept as it is:

- Players who OK with No Saves - having fun (because they just won't save)

- Players who NOK with No Saves - having fun

I kinda feel scenario II is objectivly better and keeps more people happy.

Beth please just announce portable sleeping bags and lock all these threads jesus christ

And how would you like your coffee?

either you read me like a book or I'm still too tired to get the joke

Having checkboxes for ALL survival mode features would be the best decision IMO. The point is I don't really understand forcing No Save option at all: if you don't want to save - don't save! If you don't want to Fast Travel - don't. I actually didn't use Fast Travel when I started playing, but after 10 times voyages from Sanctuary to Diamond City became kinda stale.

Morrowind had best fast travel with it's extensive transportation network of mage guild teleports, silt striders and ships. That WAS fun and immersive. Just taking away game feature without giving anyhting back doesn't make game more challenging, just longer.

Lol. Actually, I understand being tired of this kind of thread and totally get the people fed up with complainers. I try not to be but this game had me from the announcement and was underwhelming in the total mash of it all. Still like it and Bethesda did a great job with it. Was hoping for something so epic that I'd play it for the next 10 years. Now I'll just play it for the next 5.

Regarding hardcoe mode, it's fun to feel a challenge and even more of a better feeling to accomplish and achieve something others dare not venture forth to. I'm all for challenge, but now with this whole issue of no save/fast travel issue, it's made me see that indeed, I do have a time limit to my gaming in my life and a fun challenge of eat food drink water, really watch the rads, diseases will not be a reality for me due to my own hectic schedule. Could you imagine having only 1 hour to play one night and spending it all on a single mechanic restriction? Frustrating, not fun.

Sleeping bags I agree would be a great way to stop these threads (regarding saves) and I'm all for that idea.

Now onto the issue of fast travel...

Couldn't have said it better myself. Yup yup and yup!

What if I want to experiment in build mode? Or occasionaly find out that one part of my carefully built Wall of China doesn't connect under right angle to the other part of the wall in the opposite part of settlement (which totally happened)? Should I change difficulty setting or whip out my sleeping bag and sleep on it every time I make major architectural decision? Oh yeah, I'm immersed up my ass, baby!

I didn't read every post in this thread (or the others); but has anyone else pointed out that this will be pretty much a non-issue for PC users? I guarantee you that CASM (or similar auto-saving mods) will still work (or have newer versions). Which basically means I agree with the OP: everything else is fine (and welcome changes), but the decision of when to save should be left the the human player, for a multitude of reasons.