Sustained Spellcasting

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 9:29 am

READ BEFORE VOTING!

There was a http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5746 for Oblivion that had a great feature that allowed you to cast spells in a "sustained" fashion, instead of having to recast it every time the duration expired. It worked by causing the sustained spell to drain your mana a small amount over time until it was canceled (or until you ran out of mana). With enough mana regeneration, you could potentially have spells last more or less forever but at the cost of a slower regeneration speed compared to if you weren't sustaining the spell. This only worked for certain spells that affected the character (feather, water walking, water breathing, light, resist, shield, and all the Conjuration spells).


I think this mechanic worked well with Oblivion. It made spell casting less about baby sitting your spell timers, and more about considering the consequences of the spell effects you have active. You could have 3 spells constantly going but your regeneration would suffer, so you really had to choose what was important for what you were facing. I think it added an extra element of strategy to encounters and really helped to streamline the tedium of being a mage.

Example:

Spoiler

These numbers are just pulled out of my head, real numbers would be subject to actual spell costs.

Spell 1: Feather 100 points x 100 seconds
Spell 2: Shield 50 points x 100 seconds
Spell 3: Resist 75 points x 75 seconds

Character stats:
Mana 300
Mana regeneration: 5 per second
Time from 0 mana to full: 60 seconds

Spell 1 costs 100 mana to cast and lasts 100 seconds, to sustain it would cost 1 mana per second (MPS)
Spell 2 costs 150 mana to cast and lasts 100 seconds, to sustain it would cost 1.5 MPS
Spell 3 costs 225 mana to cast and last 75 seconds, to sustain it would cost 3 MPS
Total MPS: 5.5
Mana drained per second: .5
Time til OOM (out of mana): 600 seconds

Now having 3 spells lasting 10 minutes in itself might seem over powered, but when you take into consideration the fact that you will also be casting spells to do damage you realize you don't have that much mana.

Spell 4: 50 fire damage costs 50 mana

If you were not sustaining any spells, you could regenerate enough mana to cast this damage spell every 10 seconds. But now, you could only cast it ~6 times before you are OOM, and you have 0 regeneration. On top of this you are also losing mana, so most likely you could only attack 5 times, then you'd slowly drain out your remaining 49.5 mana. When you reach 0 mana, all your sustained spells dispel.

If you are facing melee enemies, you could lose the sustained Resist spell, improving your MPS to 2.5, if facing magical enemies your MPS would improve to 1, and if you don't need feather, that's an extra 1 MPS regardless of who you fight. You wouldn't go into a fight having every possible spell sustained on you, because it would gimp your spell casting ability. You pick and choose what works best for the encounter and decide the pros and cons of the benefits of your sustained spells versus the cons of decreased mana regeneration.

Added benefits: Instead of having to recast that feather spell every 1:40 minutes, you could sustain it for an infinite amount of time, only taking a slight mana regen loss. Same effect could be achieved with water walking, water breathing, and light spells. Bound weapon/armor spells could achieve the same effect as well.


I would really love to see a feature like this implemented into Skyrim, if at all possible. Thoughts?
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jenny goodwin
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 4:37 am

thats a pretty good idea, baby-sitting your timers was very annoying in oblivion, but this would change everything.
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Add Meeh
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:09 pm

I actually suggested this as a way to make 'Slow Time' and 'Stop Time' work, but I didn't of it this far. Good job!
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Shirley BEltran
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 7:39 am

Constant drain spells are one of the main things I want.

From the GI article, it sounds like I got one other thing. Sustained attack magic a.k.a. Flamethrower spell.
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Alisha Clarke
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 10:22 am

I actually suggested this as a way to make 'Slow Time' and 'Stop Time' work, but I didn't of it this far. Good job!

I don't want to take all the credit here :tongue: , I took the idea from the Mighty Magic mod. Just reading a post jogged my memory of this forgotten gem, and I thought I'd throw it out here. It'd be cool if it was actually implemented, but that's a bit of a far cry.

Constant drain spells are one of the main things I want.

From the GI article, it sounds like I got one other thing. Sustained attack magic a.k.a. Flamethrower spell.

Very cool, I did not hear about that. Maybe this idea isn't so far fetched after all.
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Motionsharp
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 1:10 pm

I was the one guy who voted no :P

but I take that back. When I first read the title I imagined something akin to destruction spells where you could have some perpetual aura of flames or frost around you which would be positively game breaking.

reading your post though I agree, monitoring the timer is one of the reasons why I almost never cast defensive spells, I put defensive spells on enchantments

that would be very good, I agree
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josh evans
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 9:18 am

I think it's needed for certain types of spells so you don't have to spam them or end up not using them. Morrowind has a mod that does something like this too.
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sam smith
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 4:59 pm

It might be problematic. You can have a warrior wear a shield a sword and then activate a bunch of buffs with no down side.
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Lance Vannortwick
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 12:48 pm

yes, but only for certain spells where it seems logical.


It might be problematic. You can have a warrior wear a shield a sword and then activate a bunch of buffs with no down side.


Paladin archetypes rejoice :) , they would run out fast unless you invested in some magicka and magic skills while leveling.
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Dan Endacott
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 2:57 pm

I have another idea:

The engine could consider how high the magic skill needs to be, and have it drain faster or slower than another one:

EXAMPLE:
x = magic regeneration.

Skill is 75+:

Novice: No regen.

Apprentice: -1/2x

Journeyman: -1x

Expert: -1 1/2x


Skill is 100:

Novice: 1/2x

Apprentice: No regen.

Expert: -1/2x

Master: -1x



As well as having at least 75+ in a magic skill to have the ability to cast a buff, you need to be at least level 20. Once you hit 75+, you can have one buff of that magic skill, to a maximum of 3 in total.

Ex:

Level 20: 1st buff slot

Level 30: 2nd buff slot

Level 40: 3rd buff slot


These are my ideas. Feel free to add on to them, or yell at me for my ignorance.
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leni
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 4:41 pm

I think the idea is that once you run out of mana the spells would automatically fizzle.

How would silence affect this though? Would your buffs temporarily shut down?
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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 7:33 pm

yes, but only for certain spells where it seems logical.




Paladin archetypes rejoice :) , they would run out fast unless you invested in some magicka and magic skills while leveling.


That's another thing. How would you handle leveling with sustained spells. Do we want it continually give skill ups. Another thing, after you level up a bit, your going to start wearing a set of spells all the time basically taking away the choice of when to use buffs. Just something to think about.
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Horse gal smithe
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 4:48 pm

I was the one guy who voted no :P
but I take that back.

Are you aware that you can delete your choice and re-vote?
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City Swagga
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 9:58 am

sounds good to me.
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James Baldwin
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:58 am

Good idea, as long as the regeneration is slowed down to "only while sleeping" again.
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Kat Lehmann
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 3:21 pm

I think the idea is that once you run out of mana the spells would automatically fizzle.

How would silence affect this though? Would your buffs temporarily shut down?


now that is one HELL of a good question!

though I think silence simply prevents you from casting.
can anybody tell me: in oblivion, if you can silence on a conjurer, does his creation disappear? (just as an example)
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Invasion's
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 5:41 am

I think it'd be cool to have a bound shield spell work like this, you cast and hold, it pops up and blocks, then let go and it disappears.
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 2:52 pm

I really can't see this working well and balanced without non regenerative magic. Think of levitation. Do you really want endless flying because you are a high powered mage? If we had Morrowind system wrt non regenerative magicka, you'd have to dispell yourself or that effect when you were done "flying". I'm sorry, but all kinds of whistles and bells go off in my head on this one. Voted no, constant effect, draining or not, belongs with high enchantment (where limiting spells seems fair without causing further debate).
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BRIANNA
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 7:28 pm

Until this is implemented in the vanilla version of the game (i.e. without mods) Restoration buffs will always svck. :dry:

As for the balance concerns, it's pretty obvious that some effects wouldn't be allowed with sustained spells. Just like Restore Health isn't allowed on constant enchantments in Oblivion.
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Dan Wright
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 4:22 am

I love this idea. Another way would be to perhaps have an option to "instantly recast" the spell when it expires, maybe an enchantment or spell that causes any effects you have to be recast at the cost of the same amount as the effect initially cost. I prefer this idea though.
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Joanne Crump
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 12:48 pm

Sustained spells and abilities worked pretty well in Dragon Age. There's no reason they'd svck in TES.
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 1:00 pm

its already confirmed to be IN the game...

how??

the flame throwing like spell (inferno) HAS to be a constant channel spell, soooooooo channeled spells are in for sure

I want channeled LIGHTNING BEAM OF DEATH :celebration:
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Sweet Blighty
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Too overpowered, let′s take a scenario into mind, you see a enemy running at you, all you have to do is cast a substained destruction spell that costs the same substained mana as you regenerate. Easy win, on any mob, just 1 spell and run around and hide.

And if we get spells to lock doors again you could also just cast a substained spell, go through a doorway and close it + lock it with spell, then you can kill any dragon or monster in 1 spell and you can just sit there yawning waiting for it to die.

And I can go on for a thousand more scenarions for tens of different spells and so on and so on, way too overpowered.

Edit: I say this all considering that I take it that there would not be line of sight limits or anything like that.
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Harry Hearing
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 7:57 pm

its already confirmed to be IN the game...

how??

the flame throwing like spell (inferno) HAS to be a constant channel spell, soooooooo channeled spells are in for sure

If it's only that one spell and other "thrower" spells then that isn't a true implementation of it. We want to be able to use it with ANY effect (within reason, of course) with the help of spellmaking :twirl:
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Cody Banks
 
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Post » Fri May 13, 2011 4:49 am

Too overpowered, let′s take a scenario into mind, you see a enemy running at you, all you have to do is cast a substained destruction spell that costs the same substained mana as you regenerate. Easy win, on any mob, just 1 spell and run around and hide.

And if we get spells to lock doors again you could also just cast a substained spell, go through a doorway and close it + lock it with spell, then you can kill any dragon or monster in 1 spell and you can just sit there yawning waiting for it to die.

And I can go on for a thousand more scenarions for tens of different spells and so on and so on, way too overpowered.

Edit: I say this all considering that I take it that there would not be line of sight limits or anything like that.

Like I said, some spell effects, like Paralysis and Destruction spells, just wouldn't be allowed with sustained spells. Just like some spells aren't allowed with constant echant effects.
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naana
 
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