Has any one heard if they've fixed the "Stolen" tags on items in F4? For instance, if we find random NPC X dead in the wasteland and we go to X's house his possessions should be free for the taking. On more than one occasion I've run across something like this in Skyrim, and it's annoying.

Like when I murdered all the Powder Gangers but the God of Fallout (who had just smiled upon me for killing said faction) judged me for taking their stuff? Would be cool if that changed.

i imagine its still going to be an issue, but an easy way to remove the stolen tag in pretty much every game theyve had so far is to sell the item to a merchent and then buy it back.

Precisely!

Yeah but I hate spending the caps/gold! Lol

I hated that. First off how does anyone know I took it when no is around but on top of that I'm still from people who will use it to kill.

Karma isn't supposed to represent what people know or think about you. It is a personal counter for your deeds. Nobody needs to know you did something good or bad for karma to smile or frown on you.

That said, it's handled pretty badly in every game. Like the above mentioned examples, as well as the way people randomly know your karma (which makes no sense) and judge your character based on it, like almost all of the companions in Fallout 3 and a few from the other games as well. I'd be happy if it were just scrapped altogether and replaced with reputation.

If the same thing or similar exists in Fallout 4, there will assuredly be a mod to address it.

I never really got the whole "stolen" tag on items anyway. I mean, how are regular shop keepers 3 cities away supposed to magically automatically know or intuit what's stolen and what's not?

I can see a "stolen" tag on items in one area, settlement, town, city, whatever sticking to an item for that location, but, once the character travels away from that location, it's like, how is anyone going to know ... unless the "stolen" tag on items is magic and visible to everyone as if stealing something summoned the stolen sticker god of stolen items that puts magical stickers on stolen things that can't be removed.

"Stolen" should only apply to the character that previously owned the stolen item because, they should be able to identify something that once belonged to them, and, even perhaps the immediate local area where other NPCs could plausibly know that item X is owned by NPC Y, and NPC Y just reported item X stolen.

More than that, stolen items should lose the "stolen" sticker.

This is a good point, I would be willing to accept that in a small town a given item would be recognizable as X's property and thus tagged as stolen but outside of that place no one should know or care.

I agree it makes no sense that merchants would know. However I think its more to do with not letting us aqcuire vast amounts of wealth too quickly and easily early on.

Granted if they made stealing actually a challenge and improved the sneaking gameplay so its not so easy to rob everyone blind until you ARE a master theif or whatever later in the game then Id think we wouldnt have the stolen tag. Doubt thats going to happen but hope im wrong.

See the thing is, if youve played a previous game BGS has made in either Fallout or TES and have been a sneaky player before than you already know their sneak mechanics. So people like us can easily manipulate rhe system and go crazy stealing. When I first played F3 it was new to me. It was thrilling stealing, but I wasnt a pro until later in the game. Back then I could have used the extra caps from my succesful heists. Now I no longer steal in their games unless Im at the point I can sell the stuff or its an item I will use soon, like potions or weapons armor. Otherwise its useless.

Anyways I pray things are better and it is worth stealing and a challenge in F4.

So related to this have you (or anybody else reading this) played a game that has really good thieving mechanics? I really only have F3/NV and TES 3-5 as examples.

And "owned" beds, it's a freaking bed!

Yes! Person meets with an "unfortunate" end, I should be able to sleep in his/her bed!

I agree, they should make the vast majority of owned items unattainable if you're not skilled in sneaking. I'm talking a percentage system much like speech in FO3. With the exception that if you have little to no chance (0% - 35%) of stealing an item, you shouldn't be given the option at all. This is to mainly, among other things, avoid frustration of players accidentally taking an item(s) and getting wrongly punished for it. As you progress in sneaking more items will come available to you to try and steal. The scale should based on item value. Perhaps you can unlock tiers (based on value) of items you can steal with perks that unlock when you reach a certain skill percentage in sneaking.

idk just came up with this off the top of my head

Actually, I think TES and Fallout have the best Thieving systems I've ever seen in a game, because most games svck at it. I really don't know what to tell you.

Umm... You could steal from the shopkeeper in Link's Awakening. You were called THIEF for the rest of the game as a punishment.

I think a lot of games don't have items that can be classified as stolen, and as such, you won't be penalised for picking everything up. Sure, a lot of games have stealth mechanics (ie don't be seen in this restricted area) but provided you've not been seen, you can loot to your heart's content. I guess that's kinda what they tried to do with shopkeepers in Skyrim. Like "WHY ARE YOU WATCHING ME, BELETHOR?!". He follows you even if you're invisible. @_@

Lol, I hated getting called "THIEF" through that game. "THIEF checked the chest. Wow, this is a nice chest!". I also hated shop keepers watching me so I do my burgularizing at night! I think you are right, I can't think of any other games that have a full Thieving mechanic. Sad that Beth has nothing to compare to in order to improve it.

The past Fallouts didn't even have a "stolen" tags. As long as no one sees you take it, you can steal it and sell it to anyone. The only exception to this was that if you stole from a shopkeeper and then tried to sell the item back that same shopkeeper,.. he'd recognize his own stuff. Now yeah, if your stupid and someone sees you take it, they'll all go spare and attack you.

Just because you've taken something doesn't mean it's legally, morally, or rightfully yours, and whether the primary owner was dead or not doesn't actually enter into whether it's now legal/moral/right/etc.

If you kill a man, his belongings become his next of kin's. If he has no next of kin, it belongs to the state. Only if the state is destroyed does it then become free for the taking.

In the case of the Powder Gangers, things were stolen because that was all legally NCR property; you'd have to kill the NCR itself in order to make it legal to take.

In the case of random people in the wasteland, the goods then belong to the random person you killed's wife or husband or son or daughter or parents or others in his community.

In short: Just because someone dies does not mean their stuff is fair game. It's still legally theft whether you take it prior to their death or after, because you are not their next-of-kin.

I've just spent the last 30 mins thinking about this and I can't think of any game with a comprehensive crime and punishment system.

Also, I'd really like some prisons in the more settled areas of Fallout 4. I can't stand it if I get caught stealing in Fallout and people think attacking me is therefore an appropriate course of action. Have the damn City Watch from TES cite their usual options with prison as a choice, just don't have townsfolk commit suicide by attacking me.

Yes, I've just stolen something and gotten caught, but trying to kill me is a really bad idea for most NPCs, so just get some Bounty Hunters on me or something.

Gah, you're right. I had forgotten somehow. This was only a TES issue with the tags. The issue with stealing dead people's things and the whole wonky Karma thing in relation to stealing is still a valid problem though.

Legally, when I kill a Raider, all of their belongings should be passed on to their family (other Raiders). Legally, when I kill an NCR Trooper, their gun, ammo and uniform all belong to the NCR and should be classified as theft. Legally, when I loot Raven Rock, all of that Power Armour and high-tech gear belongs to the Enclave, so it really should be all tagged as stolen.

I hate lawyers.

I would actually like to see a means of transferring a persons belongings to a next of kin sort of thing. Being that the state is absolutely destroyed, if a person has no next of kin then their stuff is your stuff. The specific example I had in mind when I made this thread was an incident I came across in Skyrim where I was wandering around the random encounter spawned close to Anise's Cabin across the river west of Riverwood. I found a dead vigilant next to a re-dead skeleton and I knew there had to be at least one more skeleton nearby. Sure enough two skeletons ran over the hill coming from Anise's Cabin. After putting them down I went to the cabin and, RIP Anise. The skeletons killed her. Well now all her stuff in her cabin was up for grabs but it was still marked as stealing if you took anything. Also I can't sleep in her bed! Lol. Yes there was a really good thread a few days back called "Crime and Punishment" that covered prisons and such. I recommend it.

I think thieving system at Gothic game series was good enough. There werent any stolen tags but if you entered into someone elses property they kept an eye on you like a hawk (even told you to leave and attacked if you refused)... and if they see you take anything the would attack you and other people came to help too... You could only sneak in if the person was sleeping or absent. You could not rob their clothes off while they are cooking... Seems pretty solid mechanic if polished further.

Another game with good thieving... was... Thief game

Interesting, thank you for bringing these to my attention. I had heard of Thief but I couldn't use it as an example because I've never played it.

Btw, i was talking about the new Thief game. I played that. It was so amazing to go to a bank, choke all guards to sleep from behind, take all the valuables and get away clean, without killing. And, later hearing pvssyr on the street and on the news about how the bank was robbed and nobody knows who did it... lol. I just made myself want to play that game again...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/239160/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56LXo7WHh6g

Have you played the gothic games?