Sword Singing and Thu'um

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:05 pm

snip
Yeah, I agree, even with your semantic dissembling of my choice of words. This is already miles off topic, so I'm going to go watch Clerks 1 & 2 rather than continuing my complaints about the current state of the industry :)
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Bee Baby
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:22 pm

So the memory stones and the word walls are different, but the idea of absorbing information without reading and instant comprehension is the same. And the mechanic is the same. The purpose and information are different, but the mechanic, especially that of learning the language is the same.
Except the mechanic is still not the same. Nothing says instant comprehension comes with the memory stones, in fact the only example we have of them being used to teach anything is Cyrus and he doesn't even learn how to do the move, just how to stand as if he could. Learning how to stand a certain way is hardly any great feat. The memory stone doesn't imbue skill or power as a word wall does, it simply allows you to view memories - there's not even necessarily any absorption going on, simply viewing.
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Jonathan Braz
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:09 am

Except the mechanic is still not the same. Nothing says instant comprehension comes with the memory stones, in fact the only example we have of them being used to teach anything is Cyrus and he doesn't even learn how to do the move, just how to stand as if he could. Learning how to stand a certain way is hardly any great feat. The memory stone doesn't imbue skill or power as a word wall does, it simply allows you to view memories - there's not even necessarily any absorption going on, simply viewing.
I'd equate memory stones not with word walls, but with absorbed dragon souls.
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Rachael
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:56 pm


I'd equate memory stones not with word walls, but with absorbed dragon souls.
???

How is viewing memories even remotely comparable to absorbing dragon souls?
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Victor Oropeza
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:36 pm

???

How is viewing memories even remotely comparable to absorbing dragon souls?
Depends. We don't know much of the stones. If it's nothing more than an imprinting of conscious thoughts on the stone, like internal monologues, then probably nothing. But if it stored more than the person's surface musings, such as memories complete with what they felt, consciously and subconsciously (things that could not be communicated simply through viewing the stone), perhaps it could be possible to absorb the memory contained within (which would result in the stone being erased or destroyed).
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Sanctum
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:11 pm

Except the mechanic is still not the same. Nothing says instant comprehension comes with the memory stones, in fact the only example we have of them being used to teach anything is Cyrus and he doesn't even learn how to do the move, just how to stand as if he could. Learning how to stand a certain way is hardly any great feat. The memory stone doesn't imbue skill or power as a word wall does, it simply allows you to view memories - there's not even necessarily any absorption going on, simply viewing.

No, you don't gain any power or skill from word walls. There's no absorption going on, just viewing. The power is in the soul. This is dead simple stuff.

EDIT: "The Power" In this case is knowledge. In order to use this knowledge you need comprehension but that comes alongside the learning of the word. When you see a word glowing on a wall the Dovahkiin isn't just thinking "That means storm." He's thinking "Strun, I get that." When he absorbs a dragon's knowledge of Strun he starts to see all the amazing things that Strun implies.
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Tha King o Geekz
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:58 am

No, you don't gain any power or skill from word walls. There's no absorption going on, just viewing. The power is in the soul. This is dead simple stuff.

EDIT: "The Power" In this case is knowledge. In order to use this knowledge you need comprehension but that comes alongside the learning of the word. When you see a word glowing on a wall the Dovahkiin isn't just thinking "That means storm." He's thinking "Strun, I get that." When he absorbs a dragon's knowledge of Strun he starts to see all the amazing things that Strun implies.
And if you're not the Dovakhiin, you're thinking "ugly ordered gnashes, I don't get that [censored] at all."
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Darlene Delk
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:20 pm

Except the mechanic is still not the same. Nothing says instant comprehension comes with the memory stones, in fact the only example we have of them being used to teach anything is Cyrus and he doesn't even learn how to do the move, just how to stand as if he could. Learning how to stand a certain way is hardly any great feat. The memory stone doesn't imbue skill or power as a word wall does, it simply allows you to view memories - there's not even necessarily any absorption going on, simply viewing.
But Cyrus learns Yoku, and there's nothing to suggest that it wasn't instantaneous. And there is absorption. I can view the memory of someone speaking Spanish, but that won't make me learn Spanish. Cyrus is viewing a memory, but he also learns Yoku or at least a bit of it. Now what have we seen that allows someone to learn a language by absorbing words?
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Craig Martin
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:33 pm

The obvious test here is to have someone sleep while resting their head on a word wall and see if they wake up speaking draconic
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Jessica Phoenix
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:53 pm

Snip
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Vicki Gunn
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:22 pm

Of course the two magics will be different. One is Yokudan another is Atmoran. They've both had thousands of years to grow apart, but it seems ridiculous to say that the two aren't related in any way.

If I threw a fireball with my hands and another person shot a lightning bolt from a staff, would you say they were completely unrelated simply because the spells had different effects and issued from different sources?

Thu'um is learned from words carved into stone, imparting the person with knowledge of a language and the basis for power. Sword Singing is learned from memory stones and has been shown to impart the person with knowledge of a language and a basis for power, albeit power derived from different pathways. Even if the stones had no writing on them, language and information is still conveyed, skipping the step of reading, sending the information directly to the brain. That mechanic is the same.
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electro_fantics
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 4:12 pm

I figure memory stones aren't a perfect spot-on knowledge absorption, but apparently, for only a single night's use, it affected Cyrus quite hard. The idea is related to Thuum, as far as goals seem to go. A bit different as you eat Dragon to become Dragon. Words suddenly make sense, out of some Highlander effect.

The obvious test here is to have someone sleep while resting their head on a word wall and see if they wake up speaking draconic
I found this very charming :smile:

---
dear lord, Redguards have holocrons! When will the references stop?
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Marie
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:33 am

dear lord, Redguards have holocrons! When will the references stop?
Are memory stones cubes, or pyramids?
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Harinder Ghag
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Are memory stones cubes, or pyramids?
They're shining traqezohedrons.
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x a million...
 
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