Swords are NOT heavy : V - Skyrim

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:04 am

Cant compare cross-game weight mechanics. No matter how much you try to justify it, its not comparable.

And I do recall at some point the weight was called pounds in TES, just don't remember where.

I always divided the encumbrance amount by 4 to appropriate weight. It made sense, as a steel longsword was 20 encumbrance, divided by 5 was a good 4 pounds. A little heavy, but a good generalization.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:33 am

The op seems spot on with his weights. I've been to the museums to see the real weapons, and their weights agree with what he posted.

People think weight equals power or something. Here's a clue: speed kills. F=ma and all that.

And I do recall at some point the weight was called pounds in TES, just don't remember where.

Daggerfall measured weight in kg.

2 and a half pounds, seriously? thats a joke, the handle alone on a medieval warhammer would be around 4 to 5 pounds, the head would probably be around 10 pounds to be effective. 2.5 pounds? I dont think so.

You don't think so because you have no idea what a medieval warhammer looks like.

It actually depends on the type of war-hammer. A war-hammer is a particular style of weapon, but just like swords come in varying lengths and sizes, so to war-hammers. If you were a mounted unit, you would probably have a shorter lighter one-handed war-hammer for attacking from horseback, and that would be in the 4-5 pound range.

That is a false assumption. Everything on horseback was heavier than normal, because people on horseback were less affected by normal combat fatigue. They could use heavier things because they didn't usually have to carry the weight. I think everyone knows that a real warhammer was almost always in infantry weapon.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:42 pm

Finally a debate about something that matters.

However, I don't think oblivion weight was in pounds. Because at 100 strength you could carry 500lbs of equipment, I'm pretty sure thats impossible.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:35 am

People think weight equals power or something. Here's a clue: speed kills. F=ma and all that.

If those big weapons didn't weigh as much as they appear to weigh in video games, they should be able to swing faster as well, and weapons like the warhammer would probably have added momentum.

However, in TES games weapons are often made of materials like Volcanic Glass or Ebony or Daedric. This might factor into the weight as well, but if the weapons get slower as they get better it is sort of pointless.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:57 am

Obviously the Oblivion Weight system is in gallons. Wait...

Everything seems to be about 3-4 times heavier by Oblivion standards. I'm sure this is just because all the encumbrance formulas and other formulas that depend on an item's weight really didn't work well at the correct weights with Oblivion's engine. The engine was built where anything under .1 would come in as 0, even though you could make the weights smaller in the CS. Actually, if you divide encumbrance by 4 it makes almost perfect sense. Max encumbrance of 500 changes to 125 lbs, a semi reasonable number for what would be the 'strongest' man alive (Especially since he could be wearing the armor and thus distributing the a lot of the weight on his body.

The only thing that matters now is what materials some of the other items are made of like Daedric and Elven. And no, it isn't made of elves

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:50 pm

Finally a debate about something that matters.

However, I don't think oblivion weight was in pounds. Because at 100 strength you could carry 500lbs of equipment, I'm pretty sure thats impossible.

Though by the time you have 100 strength, you are more or less, superhuman. I mean, an average human in decent shape can carry what, 100-150 pounds?

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:56 am

2 and a half pounds, seriously? thats a joke, the handle alone on a medieval warhammer would be around 4 to 5 pounds, the head would probably be around 10 pounds to be effective. 2.5 pounds? I dont think so.

this post started with a profound misunderstanding of how physics works and ends with you looking rather ridiculous.... the fact is that the damage caused by even few pounds at a relatively high velocity when spread over a small surface area is pretty massive, pressure as physics function is force over area, meaning a smaller area creates much more pressure for the same amount of force.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:44 am

Finally a debate about something that matters.

However, I don't think oblivion weight was in pounds. Because at 100 strength you could carry 500lbs of equipment, I'm pretty sure thats impossible.

Unless i'm missing somethin' - i think the OP subject matter and link to Skyrim is at best tenuous .
but apart from that though i agree , its profound ...

Ye in Oblivion i could carry loads of stuff like 20 Swords with stacking feather , and i hope with Skyrim i will be able to carry 20 more :toughninja:

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:55 am

So where did you get these facts? I've got a british sabre and it weighs approx 15 ibs and its nowhere near as big as a regular longsword. I have say those weights don't seem real at all

Have you ever really weighted your sword? Or is it just your estimate?

http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:52 am

2 and a half pounds, seriously? thats a joke, the handle alone on a medieval warhammer would be around 4 to 5 pounds, the head would probably be around 10 pounds to be effective. 2.5 pounds? I dont think so.

It actually depends on the type of war-hammer. A war-hammer is a particular style of weapon, but just like swords come in varying lengths and sizes, so to war-hammers. If you were a mounted unit, you would probably have a shorter lighter one-handed war-hammer for attacking from horseback, and that would be in the 4-5 pound range.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:59 am

Why are there even potions that weigh 0.5lbs?

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:40 am

If those big weapons didn't weigh as much as they appear to weigh in video games, they should be able to swing faster as well, and weapons like the warhammer would probably have added momentum.

However, in TES games weapons are often made of materials like Volcanic Glass or Ebony or Daedric. This might factor into the weight as well, but if the weapons get slower as they get better it is sort of pointless.

Ebony and Daedric are the same thing. Daedric weapons are made of Ebony.

Glass is supposed to be a lightweight material; at least it is in Morrowind, all the glass weaponry is feather weight stuff.

I suppose ebony would be the heaviest of all the materials, so you could justify adding on a fair bit of extra weight.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:39 am

Halberd lighter than my laptop.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:11 am

Some weapons are made intentionally heavy, as weight will increase the force of the hit. A few bladed weapons were made with that design in mind.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:18 am

Honestly the only swords I have that is heavy are my Keyblade and Buster Sword Replicas lol. I have many other blades and none of them weigh a lot.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:55 am

i own a claymore. just weighed it. came in around 8 pounds. It depends on the purpose of the weapons though. The German equivalent is much heavier b/c it was used to break spears...OP has a good point about the movement speed of a weapon though. A well trained fighter maintains inertia and allows the weapon to carry itself and add to its own momentum.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:27 am

Use the word "sword replica" carefully. There's no such thing as a "battle ready" replica, if it is truly battle ready, then it's a sword, not a replica.

If it is indeed a replica, then it's not used for accurate measurement as it is not intended to be balanced and crafted like a real sword, ergo it probably weighs a lot more or a lot less than the real counterpart.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:55 am

to help people see this a little more clearly the equation F = M x A means that the force derived from an object comes from its mass times its acceleration. Acceleration is speed in a given direction. Weight is defined as gravities effect on an object due to the amount of mass it contains. As mass increases, gravitational attraction increases and the weight is higher. Therefore higher weight means more mass. However, the most important part is the acceleration. The shot from a 4 gauge shotgun does not weigh much, but the speed at which the shot moves creates a large amount of force. For that same reason, a lighter design of sword is more favorable. The average person can move 3 - 6 pounds rapidly and apply a large force due to their speed. However, a very massive weapon would not be moved quickly and would also fatigue its user at a rate that would make it extrememly inefficient in combat. Its comparable to hitting someone with a solid stick or a large tree branch. A stick is a better option because it can be moved quickly and can be used for an extended period of time without overly fatiguing the user.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:03 pm

It's true, they don't weigh a lot. My sword's blade is 34". the total weight of the sword is around 3.0 lbs.
high carbon steel, and a fuller helps keep the weight down.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:35 am

I think he was talking about life size roleplay weapons...

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:16 am

It's a pretty common misconception I suppose from video games, movies, and "replicas", but I would like to know where we got the idea for the heavy/thick war hammer? Do we have heavy weapons in our media purely for drama and aesthetics? I suppose medieval blacksmiths experimented with big weapons purely to show ones talent, for decoration, or even for religious/ceremonial purposes. We do see Native American tribes making large, thin arrowheads which would have served no useful function, but to show off ones skill with the materials.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:47 pm

Actualy because most swords ever made were actualy basicaly metal clubs yes they were heavy.

But that has nothing to do with a game. Things weight what they need to to keep you from having more then they want you to and to make carting one more around an issue.

Oh and also of note.. the sword in conan the barbarian weighed 10-20lb... they made it that big and heavy so his muscles would flex when he swung it and so it would look cool.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:14 am

Actualy because most swords ever made were actualy basicaly metal clubs yes they were heavy.

But that has nothing to do with a game. Things weight what they need to to keep you from having more then they want you to and to make carting one more around an issue.

Oh and also of note.. the sword in conan the barbarian weighed 10-20lb... they made it that big and heavy so his muscles would flex when he swung it and so it would look cool.

The aesthetics do play a large part I think. It's just really bad ass to see a giant man with an equally giant weapon swinging people's limbs off.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:40 am

One thing that has bothered me lately, is reading all of the posts describing how heavy medieval swords and weapons are. I read that blocking with a two handed sword is impractical because the weight of the weapon would make it entirely to slow. This is entirely false. Swords and other weapons of the era where fairly light and usually well balanced. I'm hoping when Bethesda designs the weapons that the swords are slender and realistic looking, and not the ugly anime style.weight of medieval era weapons:average 1 handed sword: 2.5 to 3.5 poundsaverage 2 handed sword: 4.5 poundsbattle axes: 1 to 6 poundswar hammer: 2.5 poundshalberd: 5 pounds1 handed mace: 2.5 pounds2 handed mace: 5 poundsAnother thing I hope Bethesda takes into account is European style swords where not meant to be used as slashing weapons, but for thrusting (hence the strait blade). Swords such as sabers, scimitars, and the katana where meant to slash.sources... http://www.thearma.o...ays/weights.htmhttp://en.wikipedia....wiki/Battle_axehttp://www.kampaibud.../Swordheavy.phphttp://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/shield_and_weapon_weights.html

wow... one thing I have noticed on these forums is people are just going around spouting off information without giving source. I for one know that swords are heavy. I have gone to many stores with people that have real english swords, and they always show me the comparison of fake ones and real ones. They first give me a fake one, and it is really light, then they let me hold a real one, and I can barely hold it up. Before you spout off information, give some backup information. If you want me to all you have to do is ask, and I will get the information really fast for you.

» Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:49 am

wow... one thing I have noticed on these forums is people are just going around spouting off information without giving source. I for one know that swords are heavy. I have gone to many stores with people that have real english swords, and they always show me the comparison of fake ones and real ones. They first give me a fake one, and it is really light, then they let me hold a real one, and I can barely hold it up. Before you spout off information, give some backup information. If you want me to all you have to do is ask, and I will get the information really fast for you.

Read on some site, that some replicas are heavier than the real deal because of the method of making, or the opinions by the makers and buyers that they should be heavy.