Correct me if I'm wrong on this, cause I haven't been plugged into the Skyrim development until today.

But it seems as if you don't pick Major/Minor skills. That you start out with all skills equal and increase them through use (with the stones adding increase bonuses for some) - in this way you will become a character based on what you do, not what you choose (like in a class system).

My problem with this is that it gives us characters that are tabula rasas - blank slates. This would be perfectly fine, except that our characters have already lived twenty years. That's twenty years of experiences where they have become proficient at certain skills, no differently than we set out to do in our game. Why is my character being denied those twenty years of experience? More importantly - it is hardly realistic that a man should be equally good (or equally bad) at everything. As some have said, the game ensures that you can't be a jack of all trades, so why is your character after (at least) twenty years of life?

Am I mistaken about the beginning skill system? What is character generation going to be like? Just pick a face and a race and you're done?

EDIT: there seems to have been some confusion. I am perfectly fine with the character leveling system, what I have a problem with is the character GENERATION system that Skyrim appears to use.

Races will play a large part, plus you are starting off in jail. Who knows how long you have been there. You can blame your lack of skill on the fact that you were locked up for a while.

We'll find out in November how exactly we make our characters.

20 years old is a mere baby with little experience in life when you come at it from my rather older perspective. Of course no 20 year old thinks that is the case, I didn't myself when I was that age...

Liar. I'm well on my way to becoming a master swordsman, alchemist, and cat burglar, and I'm only 21.

Yes dear, of course you are *pats head*

Given the time period fantasy games tend to be based around, 20 years old was middle aged.

But even people in jail gain experience in certain things.

My point is that this tabula rasa eliminates a lot of choices for role-playing. I can't really say my character is a former mage who was locked up... cause he's just as bad at casting spells as at picking locks. How do I explain away his lack of talent? That he was in prison from ten? It really kills a wide breadth of role-playing and I'm sad to see Skyrim going that direction.

If you've played Morrowind, you know you haven't accomplished anything until you're the head of ALL three separate warring factions, at the same time...

I'm hoping that along with race bonuses and weaknesses you also get to choose some starting perks.

It would also be nice to see a trait system similar to Fallout, which give you bonuses as well as weaknesses.

This is Nirn, not Earth, there was evidence in Morrowind for some Dunmer living for hundreds of years, at 20 years old they'd barely be weaned. Your argument is invalid.

Its not invalid. A year in Nirn is 360 days. What we on Earth can accomplish in 20 years will be more or less the same on Nirn. Even on Nirn, humans have a similar life expectancy, and a 20 year old elf is hardly different then a 20 year old human.

In addition, though the seventeenth century French male peasant died around 40, he was active and healthy up until death. And consider that a french peasant would life in much worse conditions than the predominantly urban populations of Tamirel. You'll find that a lowered death age =/= a lowered "middle age" - our conception of a middle age, at least, where you're slow and old. The middle age of a French peasant was spritely and robust. If you want more information on living conditions of seventeeth century peasants (for comparison to Tamriel), Pierre Goubert's The French Peasantry in the Seventeenth Century is an invaluable (and interesting) read.

So, ergo, in a culture such as Tamriel (and the French peasantry), a twenty year old would have even more skills than a twenty year old in our culture, since he would be working from the ages of six or seven and would be considered an advlt around ten.

EDIT: missed a word

Good points, and I thinkt the whole blank slate at the age if 20 us pretty weird too. How could you lose everything you've learned during your time in prison? Unless you've been there for most of your life which is likely not the case as we're being led to our execution for crossing the border.

And you would have plenty if experiences before the age if 20, you were considered a near-advlt in your teen years in the middle ages, and Elves might be even older because they may *look* 20 but be 50 due to their longevity.

From the second you were born you were taught the basics of life like walking and eating.. then when you were five you slipped into a coma you woke up 20 years later and got out of bed. You slipped getting out of bed cuz you were rusty and you accidentaly pushed someone onto some sheers. A guard was nearby and is taking you to execution..problem solved

Hmmmm... you're right, collecting Logos from shrines to cast Logos Powers is kinda like learning the words to cast Dragon Shouts.

I'm sorry you've never considered role-playing, but there is an (ever-shrinking) community of Elder Scrolls players that know this series takes its genre seriously. That a Role-Playing Game should be about the character and the world, not game mechanics or fancy designs. In a strong RPG the game serves only to enhance the Role-playing: that is to say, the game mechanics should fade into the background and let the character and his or her interactions with the world come to the forefront.

I think that is where Todd and his team are going with this experienced-based system - that we aren't doing a specific skill to level it up, we do it because we want to use it. But at the same time this tabula rasa chargen destroys that - it cripples the back-story of my character and eliminates his uniqueness. I really hope that there is some other system to chargen that we are overlooking or that hasn't been mentioned, because right now it stinks, it's bland, it's unrealistic.

In short, it's not TES.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read the topic name, even though I'm aware of the phrase's latin meaning as well.

That's the exception though. Some Dunmer can reach that age, mostly through Telvanni magical intervention. There's an account somewhere on the Imperial Library stating that most Dunmer live to an average Mer age. Not to mention its just a harsher overall environment so you would have to mature faster.

I agree overall that we should be able to define our characters more at the start, especially for RPers that like to flesh their history out in-game as much as possible. Not to mention all PCs are not 20 years old. Have it optional. I wanted Daggerfall type character creation, but it seems that they only upgraded the aesthetic part of it (which I still like). They even removed Birth signs.

I always wanted the ability to write a little, or not so little description about your character at creation, then have the ability to upload your character and their stats/build/conquests etc. online to share with others.

A blank slate bothers me too, at least I should have a slight direction in skills to start off with. I might be a really bad archer, but IF I wanted to play an archer I should have a little something for my journey.

But what should I have? I don't really know, but I wouldn't mind something like the Fallout test, only that those "directions" should be a bit weaker than in FO3. Just to get you started.

We dont always have to start with a big production number and a TADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sometimes you can just start walking.

For me, I see it more as the player was a common peasant before his upcoming execution. He may have picked up a Manual of Spellcraft and tossed a fireball or two, or swung a sword at a dummy, or shot a target full of arrows, but he was more or less an inexperienced commoner. Then, eventually he learns his purpose, awakens, and starts to hone his skills and become a master. At least, that's my thought on it.

Actually, starting out with only level 1 and beginner equipment is equally unrealistic.
As you have said, he would have around 20 years of experience, so the character would be way over the beginner stuff...

I say fill in the blanks yourself. Your character only uses magic at the beginning because he learned a lot of magic before, or if nothing else, he forgot with those anti-magic wristbands on his arms...

That sounds right. You begin as weak as you will ever be. Except for any racial traits, you have no strengths. You acquire strengths as you play.

Maybe we get shot in the head.

I'm sure you aren't starting with a complete blank state. Your skills in cooking, weaving, farming and cleaning are there if you want to imagine them.

You DO start with a char that has no adventuring skills to mention though. By that I mean no real fighting experience, no alchemy, no advanced illusion magic knowledge etc...


Basically, you are just a nobody, some average guy from an average town with NO adventuring skills worth mentioning that grows into something huge that will shape the world as you know it by the time you finish the main quest.