One of the things that appealed to me about the original Fallout games was the tactical combat. It required a lot of strategy to defeat your opponents, but I think this is missing from Fallout 3. Would I be amiss in my anolysis, or am I correct?

Is this based on actually playing the game, or are you asking because you are considering purchasing?

I play on PC, and use many mods (last count was in the upper 60s). Quite a few of them have changed the damage to be much higher on just about every weapon, this has the effect of forcing me to take cover and consider every fight.

If that's what you mean by tactical combat, I think it's about equal to the original Fallout (haven't played the second) in terms of tactics.

No, I've played the game already.

What I mean by tactical combat is having to make tactical decisions that could win or break a fight. For instance: in Fallout, you can choose to retreat, move forward to get a better shot, change your weapon, heal, or even take drugs to boost your stats. You can do all these things in Fallout 3, but you don't lose action points for it. I suppose the turn-based combat had a lot to do with Fallout being more tactical; I don't think anyone would object to that regardless of what one you prefer.

Truth? Tactics make a big difference in FO3, but you don't really need them. The way stimpacks work in FO3 (pull-up your Pip-Boy, heal to full) makes it possible to survive just about any fight (provided you have enough stimpacks).

However, good tactics rewards the Player, not only in having elegant battles - but also in less usage of resources. Defeating a Super Mutant patrol without chems and minimal usage of ammunition helps you in the game in that you don't use up resources.

I dunno, when you look at Evergreen Mills. you got a place full of raiders. and if you look closely, you don`t even have to fight to beat all of them. *just shoot one power generator, and a certain prisoner will do your job.

you mean that kind of tactics?

it`s all a bit so-so. I can`t really hide behind objects like you see in a game as "Gears of War".. that would`ve been a nice tactical addition. but you do have alot of moments where you really should use the right action at the right time, and sometimes even just wait`n see where a patrol goes.

in any way, there`s no way you`ll survive a fire fight if you rush in and blindly shoot around. unless you`ve got too much stimpaks.

and personally, I usually sneak around to much to worry about tactics. they don`t see me, and I don`t need to think too quick. ^^ that headshot usually is the last thing they hear, unless I miss, then they`ll hear alot of swearing and a rollup of the gatling gun I just put in my hands.

hmz, and to note the chem boosters... well, actually, I dunno, costing AP doesn`t really affect the game. (heck, you just can`t use the VATS as much). but I agree they should have some kind of a penalty when you use them.

I would say you are incorrect. The tactical combat in original Fallout was abysmal. The new Fallout is very different but there can be lots of tactics involved if you choose to play that way. It can be a bit on the easy side though so it's not always necessary. But yes, if drugs and such had an AP cost it would be a lot better.

I don't think it was abysmal; it wasn't as good as other games that boasted tactical combat like Jagged Alliance, but I didn't have a problem with it.

I totally agree. This is one of the things I have mentioned in my previous postings. Not enough tactics and strategy required in combat. Its just V.A.T.S.

Not really, it all depends on the gamers style. If you need to run up closer to get a better shot, that's a tactic, if you know you can't beat whatever's facing you and run, thats a tactic, taking cover, tactic, commanding your sidekicks in different positions to flank and surround, tactic, it really ALL depends on the gamer, you don't HAVE to use V.A.T.S. and just because it doesn't stop play and say "would you like to move closer" or "RUN DAMMIT" or "flank" you can still do it

It was extremely primitive, and I did not enjoy it much. Apart from switching weapons or using drugs there was little tactics in the way of aiming, stance or taking cover. Then I am a hardcoe Jagged Alliance fan so my view is probably a bit tainted. Fallout 3 will basically give you way more tactical choices.

I think it's just generally a different sort of tactical approach in F3 than the previous titles. Chess and Football both require a fair amount of strategy, and you could probably find some similarities between the two if you looked close enough. (I'm assuming that at least, I haven't myself looked that closely at the two...) Arguably the strategies in Football can be just as deep as those in Chess, just in different ways.

I think the same is sort of true with Fallout 3 compared to Fallout 1. Just a matter of preference. I mean I prefer the thoughtfulness of a good turn-based mechanic (and I'd agree, Fallout isn't the greatest example of that, though I thought Fallout: Tactics was a good step in that direction. I did have fun with it, though.) But if I said there was no strategy inherent in a first-person combat mechanic, I'd wager there'd be a number of Halo and Gears of War players who would feel quite differently. (And while possibly I could run circles around those guys in Fallout 1 or Jagged Alliance - if they were multiplayer, they'd wipe the mat with me in Quake or Counter-strike.)

I think the use of VATS is tachical.

I think the fact that your enemy (mainly raider, Tolan, Enclave) can flank you lends it's self to a tachical approach in combat.

I find that unmodded, the best tactic is to run toward your enemy if they have a gun and away from your enemy if they use melee. Really it doesn't seem that much changed from playing oblivion.

I find that unmodded, the best tactic is to run toward your enemy if they have a gun and away from your enemy if they use melee. Really it doesn't seem that much changed from playing oblivion.

Edit: Why'd it do me twice?

I found the vanilla game relatively easy and lacking in tactical game play. My second time around, I made a bunch of tweaks to game settings such as increasing explosives radius, making cripple effects worse, slowing down leveling, giving enemies much more health, etc... Since then, the tactical aspect of combat has become immensely important. Animals and insects aren't too big of a deal, but NPCs are vicious. Taking on weapon using enemies now requires a lot of planning to pull off without dying.

I also stick to simple rule that makes combat much more fun: No stimpaks until the battle is over.

EDIT: If you want a real challenge, you can try this mod. I have a feeling that it's not completely stable though, so be careful. http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2761

I use V.A.T.S and aim for the enemies weapons to knock them out of their hands, I hide behind desks, walls, and cars... Although cars are not always the best to use for cover. Also, use stealth and plant bottlecap mines around patrol groups. There are plenty of ways to take out your enemies using tactics, just be creative.

Well tactics is not about action points for battle, Not to me anyway. Tactics is about placement and getting to fight on your terms. If you are fighting by yourself then you have really only 2 things to consider: thats your own position relative to the enemy and how to best start the engagement. You can of course spice this up a bit with the use of mines which I have not tried yet. For real tactical planning you need support. In this case it means NPC's. Now FO1 was very hard to control your NPC's and so it was hard to have a planned attack because you never knew what your NPC's were going to do. In FO2 it was a different matter and you could execute some nice tactical maneuvers and setup some nice traps and kill zones so long as you did not have Marcus along. With FO Tactics you could do a lot of snazzy stuff but the game was written just for that purpose. Im not prepared to make a final verdict just yet about Tactical moves in the game but so far it is very hard to do anything really tactical. I have much the same problem with Jericho as I had with Ian in the first game. He runs off and starts a fight before Im ready and i cant get him to stay put or behind me me. So so far I would say that the tactical end is not good but Im not finished with the game and I have not added other NPC's yet. I'll report back later on this.