in my mind attributes could create a 3rd layer in leveling.okay so you have skills like speechcraft or blade,(Oblivion)and as you use these skills the more you progress in them.then everytime time you reach a new level in that skill(such as "master" or "expert") you can choose a perk or uprgade a perk you have already chosen.

such as "upgrade alchemy effects."then you can see 3 instead of 2.so each skill that you use you get to choose a special perk(or upgrade a perk.)in that area that you have practiced in.but it gets more complicated.

you can choose blade perks such as "a special leg swing that has a chance to break enemys legs or "special power attack that has a chance to paralyze an enemy"then after that you could upgrade that perk by making it more likely to parlyze the enemy when hit by the enemy or simply choose another blade perk.

so you have a overall blade perk.then there is another layer to the blade skill were there could be spescific weapon perks - katanas,claymores,shortswords ect.so you could choose 10% more damage for your katana.then you could do 20% more damage for your katana or 10% more slashing speed for it. so as you progress in blade you can choose spescific perks depending on your weapon type. the same could be with speechcraft.

you could consitrate on intimidating the npc or you could make him laugh.with smithing you could be a good repair well.or you could upgrade your weapons.so you can specilize in spescific things while still having thoughs overall perks like using less repair hammers.

with alchemy you could be good at poisions,or you could make a good healing potion.or you could make good illusion potions like detect life or chameleon potoins.

okay so thats the skill system, but the third layer would be the attributes.which you can upgrade every time you level up.so if you use a blade alot then upgrade your strength.in other words attributes would be there to bring in leveling,while perks are gained when you use and practice with skills.

so just to make it clear there would be magic, so when you get better at magic you choose a magic perk.and under that are all the magic types,so if you use destruction alot when u get better at it you choose a destruction perk (or an ilusion,restoration ect.)

now for somethings like sneak would be much more difficult. but my idea of solving this would be you could choose your sneak perk.then choose pickpocketing perks,ranged sneak attack perks or melee sneak attacks.but what about lockpicking?well...iam not quite sure..or some skills could not hav a 2nd level at all,but iam not going to go there yet. ill update it when i figure this out.so in my opinion this a great leveling system if it is refined.i spent alot of time and thought on this so get the disscusion going!what is your take on leveling and how do u like mine?and what skills would have a problem with this system?keep it a civil

whoa.............first off you need to break that up a bit. its just a wall of text.

Not trying to start a flame war or be too offensive here, but that is a GIANT wall of text! I started reading it for like 6 lines and then kept getting lost. I suggest either add a To Lazy / Didn't Read paragraph ( no more than 6 sentences ), or indenting + putting spacing between your post.

Word is that you don't pick skills any more, you just use them. So no more "Pick major skills you won't use in order to get multipliers" builds, hopefully.

sorry your right.just lazy but i fixed it :whistling:

never mentioned picking skills.but thats good news

Still looks like a gigantic and hard to read wall of text...

Nvm...

Oh well... it's still a pain in the ass to understand what you want to express and how should I reply to it.

imah go to bed.

Must have misread this quote, I took it to imply you still chose major skills, a la Oblivion.

my bad.i shouldnt have said "spesific"

Eh, no great drama.

From what I understand, perks are acquired in a similar way to Fallout 3 - one perk per character level, not at reaching certainly skill levels. This probably forces you to specialise a lot more than your idea, because you're not choosing between "leg sword attack" and "paralysis sword attack", you're choosing between swords and every other skill type.

yea i think thats what they will go with.its logical sence perks are from FO3 that they'll implement them like they did in FO3.so i guess my leveling system idea is trying to implement FO3 perks with Oblivions skills,while still trying to keep overall leveling and attributes the same

My take of what we know of Skyrim http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1144150-character-development-and-you:

You start the game and choose race.

Each race has unique http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1107940-perks-they-can-make-each-play-through-a-unique-experience that make it different from other races for the rest of the game, even when you have developed your character.

Hopefully you select a birthsign which would be like development of a few skills and acquiring a perk for them. (This is pure hope and has no proof from what we have learned, so far)

You do not select a class, and any skill that you use advances your character level, but the higher level skills advance it more than the lower level skills.

The more you advance your character, the harder it would become to gain the next level, so in order to maintain a steady character advancement speed, you are forced to gradually specialize in what you are good so far, so in the beginning of the game, you can play around the different skill to see what you like more, but later you have to specialize if you want to be able to maintain a steady growth of your character.

You are free to choose any skill for your specialization, and "The Choice - is - yours!".

Honestly, if I had my way I'd implement the following:

Stats, Skills, Perks

Stats are the usual Strength/Agility etc.
Stats are increased through use of their related skills and through miscellaneous activities. For instance, Speed is increased through running/jumping. Strength & Endurance through combat skills etc, but also potentially from running/jumping while carrying heavy loads etc.

Skills are increased through their use.

Perks are acquired by achieving specific skill levels. For instance, at 25 Destruction, one might choose some form of Fire Specialization perk. Through perks, one can generate truly unique characters as the number of potential perks will exceed the number of attainable perks (e.g. you can't pick them all) and thus encourage replaying.

In terms of leveling skills & stats, I would have the simple rule that using a skill increases it, but the rate of increase slows at high skill levels (like Morrowind/Oblivion). However I would also have an aggregate score (which is the sum of all of your skills) which also slows progression. To better explain this concept, the idea would be that leveling Skill C would be slower for a character who has maxed both Skill A and Skill B, than for a character who has only maxed Skill A. In other words, over-diversifying has an associated cost.

Leveling could exist by taking a weighted sum of your best abilities, so perhaps summing your best 7 skills and best 3 stats. That way leveling is more fluid too, unlike MW&OB where it occurred in awkward irregularity...