With a possible alliance with the Raga, as there is only one thing men hate more than each other, the altmer.

Huh. That's an interesting way of settling things.

Theories like that are why I love TES, and coincidently, why my friends look at me like I have two heads when I talk about it.

Talos does not need a proxy, he can appear to any mortal if he wishes and he already has in one of the elderscroll games

That's not quite what they're talking about.

Talos started out as two people, a gifted general and an incarnation of Shor shouting storms. Together they pretended to be one person and conquered Tamriel. As a result both aspects of the one man the pretended to be, became divine.

The idea is now that because we have an incarnation of Shor (the player) and a gifted General, that story may repeat itself.

---

As an aside, with some headbutting, I think Champion-Martin might also map.

Maybe I missed something, where does it say that Tiber Septim was 2 people

The Arcturian Heresy.

Beat me to it.

Should we take anything from the Greybeards calling Dragonborn

I really don't think the fact he can use the Thu'um is anything to go on.

Anyone can learn to shout, Ulfric just learned. He is also not a Dragonborn.

Oh, they just say that to everyone.

But it does help reinforce the parallel between the Dragonborn and Wulfharth.

You guys have brilliant minds. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls games for YEARS and I STILL don't have as much knowledge as you guys. I guess I was locked away playing Oblivion too long and not enough time to look into the lore haha bliviongate:

My mind has been thoroughly blown by these lore threads. I'm not entirely lost on the lore, been playing the games since Daggerfall, and have recently picked up an interest in reading all the books, but I've learned so much here, haha. I love it.

And a certain ghost...

Tullius can't be Talos, 'cause he's a frakking cyclon.

Pelenial was the Terminator. I see no reason why Nova Talos can't be a Cylon.

With regards to Tullius-Ulfric-Dragonborn becoming the new Talos, would that mean that it makes the most sense, lore-wise, for the player to be a Mage? In these trinities (Alessia/Morihaus/Pelinal, the Tribunal, the original Talos), each member seems to fulfill one of the archetypes, and Ulfric is clearly the warrior, and Tullius is arguably the rogue since he's more of a tactician.

I don't think Talos really conforms neatly to the roleplaying archetypes. Tiber was a tactician, fated to be leader of men; Wulfharth was a master of Thu'um, past leader of men; and Arctus was the adviser doomed to be betrayed.Enantiomorphically, I'd pin him as the blinded shield-thane. I would actually assign his role to the Dragonborn, being that he is both a power in his own right (matella), and a pawn of his other two.

Either way you cut it, I'm really into this idea.

There's no mage here or rogue here.

And there are two warriors here. Vivec being a warrior-poet and a dual being, he's not going to fit neatly into anything.

But these aren't necessarily enantiomorphic pairings, anyways.

The idea of the archetypes is a smokescreen because there are actually four roles, not three. And of those, two opposing 'twins' are the most important (Anu and Padomay).

To recreate the Tiber Septim situation, you need a general, not a thief.

I think its definitely possible that Ulfric is manifestation of Talos.

Here is a comparison between the two:
- Both killed their king for power. Only difference is Talos killed his in cold blood and Ulfric did his in a duel according to Nordic tradition.
- Both were helped to power by a powerful Thu'um to power.(If player chooses.) Although both themselves also use the voice. Talos eventually lost his ability after slitting his own throat to make it look like someone else murdered the king and to throw off any suspicion that he did it.
- Both attempt to unite their people under one rule. Talos united Cyrodiil while Ulfric wants to unite Skyrim.

Some possible reasons I can think of why Talos would want the empire to fall:
- Isn't happy at the banning of his worship.
- His bloodline no longer rules the empire.
- Corruption runs rampant in the empire.
- Its basically a puppet for the Thalmor.(Although to be fair there is a paper that says the Thalmor want to attempt to use Ulfric as a puppet but it says its not going to work out)


Personally I think Talos is pissed at what the old empire has become and is going to build up a new empire from Skyrim. Could see Hammefell and Skyrim teaming up to take down the Thalmor and then whats left of the Empire.

I don't think it's a Warrior/Thief/Mage thing, although you could say Thu'um counts towards the Mage requirement.

I'd say it's Rebel (Ulfric), King (Tullius, in a roundabout sort of way, as the local authority figure) and whatever Magnus counts as (Dude Who Leaves Forever After The Fight's Over?)

Talos was Wulf in morrowind no? so wouln't he take the same aspect?

...did Ulfric ever say anything of the sort?

Am I the only one who only ever got this description of Ulfric from people who resented him and his faction, but never got that vibe at all when I actually talked to him and his people? As far as I could gather the only people they actually hate are the Thalmor and the Imperials.

Did I miss something?

Ulfric may have never said anything to that extent, but he certainly let the Dunmer be second or even third class citizens in his own city. He never did anything or spoke out for any of the non-Nord races either. He never shows any love for any race, except for the Nords which he talks about a lot and which he constantly calls great. So there is definitely some racial superiority feeling going on inside his head as well.

His saving gace is however that he is very capable of recognizing the deeds of anybody in his service, Nord or not.

Yes, actually, you missed quite a bit. In fact, talking to his own people (when they aren't starry-eyed [censored] and girls [mostly girls] of his) reveals a more damning picture of him than any of his opposition's perspectives.

But Shor/Talos/Whatever could TOTALLY be a murderous racist bigot.