Is Tamriel an "open society"?

Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:11 pm

Let's remember what happens in the Middle Ages. People was highly controlled by the nobles and the religion. There weren't any scientifical advances because (counting also that there wasn't too much people investigating), if you did one, you were burned or killed in other way. Even after the Middle Ages, scientifical advances were prohibited/not allowed. Also, people who doesn't trust the religion of the zone or were from other religion weren't... let's say "liked".

Seeing that TES's time period looks inspired in the Middle Ages, It's logic to think that it's very similar to it, but I ever thought that Tamriel wasn't like this in terms of "open society", I don't know why.

I don't know a lot of lore (mainly the basic), so... can someone explain me if "scientifical" (refering to the sciences and areas of knowledge that are in the game) advances are prohibited or if the religion is so important like in the Middle Ages?

Thanks.
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Alexis Acevedo
 
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Post » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:02 am

Religion plays a really big role in Tamriel, The gods are very active and show it. The god that prohibited a certain "advancement" of scientific research was Azura.
Due to the Dwemer meddling with the heart of Lorkhan, which was profane indeed, Ending them up doing the disappearing act.
With Magic playing such a big role on nirn scientific research dosent really come up on the radar as much as it should do, Why should it? Magic has powers that exceed science in many matters hence why there is no advancement in technology (Thank god, No ray guns please), The Dwemer where majorly into science
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Trey Johnson
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:07 pm

An example of science in Tamriel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

Just don't weigh more than a duck, and you'll be fine. :)
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Mr.Broom30
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:55 pm

Let's remember what happens in the Middle Ages. People was highly controlled by the nobles and the religion. There weren't any scientifical advances because (counting also that there wasn't too much people investigating), if you did one, you were burned or killed in other way. Even after the Middle Ages, scientifical advances were prohibited/not allowed. Also, people who doesn't trust the religion of the zone or were from other religion weren't... let's say "liked".


Complete silliness. Some of the greatest polymaths, fathers of science and medicine, came from very religious socities. Look up muslim polymaths, when and where the oldest universities in the world are, and do some research before making blanket statements.

As to your question, the Dwemer were masters at what we would probably term "material sciences" - yet all their endeavour was ultimately transcendant and religious in nature. Whilst the Telvanni seem they study "science" they are not scientists, but mages studying "magic," some of which is viewed with scorn by the religion of the Tribunal and by tradition in Dunmer culture.

In a world where magic is science, you dont have scientists, you have mages, studying magic. Even Dwemer "science" has sorcery as a part of it.
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Marion Geneste
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:55 pm

1. real world advancement was hinderd by war and anarchy with the break up / split of traditional empires such as the romans, more than any religous pressure.

2. Religion has mostly been pro-science for a long time as it led to buildings and man made wonders that they could attribute to a divine favour of mankind over lesser beasts. Only when it took a back step compared to physics, biology, and psychology did churches start seeing Science in general as a threat.
But again this is more to do with scociety being more free in daily choices and the fall of tightly nit communities staying in one place for their lifespans, taking bums from pews as it were.

3. Dwemer and the mages have forms of science the Dwemer exclusively but used it to transcend into another realm. Mages more in alchemy, astrology, herbalism and trying to unlock Dwemer secrets.
But given the mutable nature of Nirn some new form of technology may pop up occasionly as a plot device.
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Dorian Cozens
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:15 pm

well the tribunal would string you up quick enough. the emperor was more open minded. he had to be, he was running a more diverse empire than anything outside of current history.
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Lillian Cawfield
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:25 pm

Complete silliness. Some of the greatest polymaths, fathers of science and medicine, came from very religious socities. Look up muslim polymaths, when and where the oldest universities in the world are, and do some research before making blanket statements.




I agree, there was some scientific advancement in the middle ages and things surrounding religion and nobility were understood and interpreted differently.

The stereotypes grow tiring...
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:12 pm

The Empire is cosmopolitan and in theory tolerant of many different religious ideas and even some practices like Necromancy aren't officially persecuted in all cased. I'd say that yes, traditionally the Empire has been a very open society. Much like real world nations, though, one particular religion and culture is heavily promoted. I'd say a Daedra worshiper might not be persecuted by the law or anything but he'd be a social outcast in certain areas.

This doesn't take into account the supposed radical reforms that happened during the early Mede Dynasty, however. Apparently there's an organization known as the Synod which may or may not train Inquisitors. This might be a hint of a more totalitarian, less tolerant direction.
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naomi
 
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Post » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:07 am

I agree, there was some scientific advancement in the middle ages and things surrounding religion and nobility were understood and interpreted differently.

The stereotypes grow tiring...

Don't forget St. Thomas Aquinas, who was sainted for trying to learn more about the physical world. Durp.

I never got that the Synod was training inquisitors. I always assumed it was another sign of Mede's acumen. Picture, if you can bear it, the great games drought back in the atari days. That was because Atari had no competition for home video games. Then Nintendo comes along, then Sony and then Microsoft, and people need to make good games to stay afloat. Competition makes for faster churning out of better product, and Mede wants the Empire to have more and more powerful magics at its disposal, so he gets two organizations to non-violently compete for his favor by making, you guessed it, new spell effects like flight.
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Juliet
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:17 pm

I'm basing my assumptions off what I know of Mede's character (he has a personal sect of assassins, and apparently insulting Mede's wife's thighs is punishable by death) and the real world definition of a Synod has religious connotations. I assume this is the Church's sect of magical users and war priests, which would logically include Inquisitors and Exorcists and the like if Mede was a less tolerant Emperor than his predecessors in the Reman and Septim dynasties.
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maddison
 
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Post » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:12 pm

The Empire is cosmopolitan and in theory tolerant of many different religious ideas and even some practices like Necromancy aren't officially persecuted in all cased. I'd say that yes, traditionally the Empire has been a very open society. Much like real world nations, though, one particular religion and culture is heavily promoted. I'd say a Daedra worshiper might not be persecuted by the law or anything but he'd be a social outcast in certain areas.


I'd imagine the worship of daedra like Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, Hircine, etc. would be illegal, but worshipping "less dangerous" princes like Azura or Sanguine wouldn't be (yeah I know, they're both as dangerous as any other prince, but y'know what I mean). However, because the average citizen of the empire doesn't know that much about the daedra, all daedra worshippers are run out of town, hence why they set up shrines in the wilderness.
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lillian luna
 
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Post » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:19 am

I'm basing my assumptions off what I know of Mede's character (he has a personal sect of assassins, and apparently insulting Mede's wife's thighs is punishable by death) and the real world definition of a Synod has religious connotations. I assume this is the Church's sect of magical users and war priests, which would logically include Inquisitors and Exorcists and the like if Mede was a less tolerant Emperor than his predecessors in the Reman and Septim dynasties.

I'm reasonably sure that was intendant Marall being sarcastic to make a point to Colin about not asking about the crimes and that making fun of her majesty's thighs isn't actually a capital offense. I think until the second book at the earliest we actually won't be 100% sure just how much power either or both of these magical organizations have, although I think we may be spot on with the secular and religious ones.
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Chantel Hopkin
 
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