Tamriel Realpolitik and the Skyrim Civil War

Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:15 am

2=/=a lot
And as to the point about Helgen: Tulius is right there while you're marching to the block and he does nothing. If the same could be said for Ulfric and the racists you'd have a point, but it can't so you don't
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Sheila Reyes
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:44 am

So if your sibling is a racist, does that mean you're a racist? Also, you seem to forget the IMPERIAL farmer who says he's going to join the Stormcloaks. I think the main reasons the Stormcloaks are mainly Nords is because logically Nords would care more about Skyrim than any other race and thus would be more likely to fight and die for it as opposed to another race. For instance, a Nord would be more likely to fight and die for Skyrim's independence as opposed to a Khajiit just as an Argonian is more willing to fight and die for Black Marsh than a Bosmer would. Would you expect a Russian to fight and die for Argentina's future? While there are no doubt other people like the Imperial farmer who want to join the Stormcloaks, Nords are the majority since they care about Skyrim the most.

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Beulah Bell
 
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Post » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:58 pm

Too bad for that sentence that not many empire supporters in game actually bend over for the thalmor. :wink:

In fact it amuses me that most of the guests at the thalmor's party are Nords, not Imperials.

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Floor Punch
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:30 am

Wrong. Prejudice is hate. Racism is thinking a race is better or worse at something or a certain way because of their race. Completely different. However, you can be prejudice due to something racist you believe.

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Steve Smith
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:16 am

Empire supporter doesn't = imperial, and every last imperial supporter bends over for thalmor by letting them do what they want. The emperor for one. Tullius another.

And back to racism:

Spoiler

NORDS ARE DEH RACUSTS. Empiyur es deh equalities

No. The Empire not only is racist, they're likely as racist as everyone else if not more. Because of how Imperialism works. Imperialism sets up a dominant culture, and the dominant culture is seen as supreme. This makes the members of that culture feel that their culture is necessary for others to function, or that theirs is just better in general. Like this:

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/214/5/c/racist_general_tullius_by_ysmirstormcrown-d6gabx2.jpg

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000c347c

Which sounds a lot like:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/white+man%27s+burden

Replace "white" with Imperial.

That's a direct quote from Mr. Tullius. Nevermind that he starts respecting the Nords or whatever later (even though he still shows disregard at the end for nord culture when he says "Wherever it is you people go when you die" when talking to Ulfric), this shows the mentality of the Imperials. And make no mistake, that IS racist. And if you say that the Empire doesn't have as many racists as Skyrim....

Oh contraire mon frere!

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Neville

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gerich_Senarel

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Wolf_Queen,_v1

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Tragic_Accident!_Baenlin_Dead!

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Mach-Na

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Arentus_Falvius

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Isa_Raman

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dervera_Romalen

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Countess_Alessia_Caro

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Tsavi

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Alessia_Ottus Read all of her books.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Julitta_Plotius

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Betto_Plotius

A Dunmer with an Imperial? Say it ain't so!

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glistel

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Malintus_Ancrus

Imperial supporters and their hypocrisy:

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bd71e

So clearly...racism is no better in Cyrodiil.

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Thomas LEON
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:29 am

Just posting this from a previous thread:

Funny how a Dunmer who bothers to work with the Nords owns a farm with a NORD working FOR him:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Belyn_Hlaalu

The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work."

Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?

Also, take a look at this quote: My sister and I both work for the Nords. Our brother is ashamed of us, but at least we can affort [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:Spelling#Quotes] to eat."http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Faryl_Atheron

So Dunmer are ashamed of those who actually bother to prove themselves to the Nords in a land where you have to prove you deserve something.

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BethanyRhain
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:58 am

Not saying Galmar is racist, but they would share similar beliefs being brothers and all.

Are you forgetting the DUNMER who wants to sign with the Legion? Skyrim is his home too and he says the Nords treat him like crap.
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Roanne Bardsley
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:18 am

My bro and I couldn't be any more different.

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Kayla Keizer
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:54 am

The Bretons of High Rock would probably want the Empire to win, seeing as they are still part of the Empire, and they have a deep hatred for Ulfric. If anything, they just want the Empire to win out of spite.

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Tanya
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:12 am

On the contrary it absolutely is the exact same thing. Neither Ulfric or any other SC aligned leader does squat about the racism. If that captain can be used to condemn the Entire Empire than the same goes for Ulfric and his clowns.

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James Wilson
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:13 am

Except the imperial supporters do nothing about the racism in solitude either towards orcs so they must be racist too. Which actually the empire is in this case:

Spoiler

NORDS ARE DEH RACUSTS. Empiyur es deh equalities

No. The Empire not only is racist, they're likely as racist as everyone else if not more. Because of how Imperialism works. Imperialism sets up a dominant culture, and the dominant culture is seen as supreme. This makes the members of that culture feel that their culture is necessary for others to function, or that theirs is just better in general. Like this:

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/214/5/c/racist_general_tullius_by_ysmirstormcrown-d6gabx2.jpg

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000c347c

Which sounds a lot like:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/white+man%27s+burden

Replace "white" with Imperial.

That's a direct quote from Mr. Tullius. Nevermind that he starts respecting the Nords or whatever later (even though he still shows disregard at the end for nord culture when he says "Wherever it is you people go when you die" when talking to Ulfric), this shows the mentality of the Imperials. And make no mistake, that IS racist. And if you say that the Empire doesn't have as many racists as Skyrim....

Oh contraire mon frere!

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Neville

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gerich_Senarel

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Wolf_Queen,_v1

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Tragic_Accident!_Baenlin_Dead!

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Mach-Na

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Arentus_Falvius

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Isa_Raman

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dervera_Romalen

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Countess_Alessia_Caro

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Tsavi

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Alessia_Ottus Read all of her books.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Julitta_Plotius

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Betto_Plotius

A Dunmer with an Imperial? Say it ain't so!

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glistel

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Malintus_Ancrus

Imperial supporters and their hypocrisy:

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bd71e

So clearly...racism is no better in Cyrodiil.

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Aaron Clark
 
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Post » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:36 pm

Really? Why would they hate Ulfric? And if they hated Ulfric that much, explain why Tullius is complaining about High Rock not giving him any reinforcements or supplies?

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Chris Guerin
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:33 am

Yeah, I'd like to see where that's found. I don't recall High Rock ever mentioning something about hating Ulfric.
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Alessandra Botham
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:50 am

In case you forgot my previous post, here it is again:

Just posting this from a previous thread:

Funny how a Dunmer who bothers to work with the Nords owns a farm with a NORD working FOR him:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Belyn_Hlaalu

The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work."

Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?

Also, take a look at this quote: My sister and I both work for the Nords. Our brother is ashamed of us, but at least we can affort [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:Spelling#Quotes] to eat."http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Faryl_Atheron

So Dunmer are ashamed of those who actually bother to prove themselves to the Nords in a land where you have to prove you deserve something.

In Skyrim, you don't get freebies, rather you have to EARN things. I don't see people complaining about Balgruuf making you kill a dragon before he gives you an unfurnished shack or Igmund making you find his father's shield and wipe out a Forsworn encampment. The problem with the Dunmer is that they essentially expect a freebie without actually doing anything to earn it. As seen by Belyn Hlaalu, the Dunmer CAN become something if they bothered to work for it. Heck, Niranye says she was mistrusted before she proved herself to the Nords so this happens to everyone, regardless of race. In case you forgot, I don't recall seeing any Dunmer begging in the streets. Also, remember the Decree of Monument which says that the Dunmer were given an ENTIRE SECTION OF THE CITY WITHOUT CHARGE, WITHOUT TAXES, AND WITHOUT BEING LOYAL TO THE JARL. In most societies, that would be considered a tremendous gift. I don't even think that has happened in RL. In other words, if the Dunmer actually bothered to prove that they deserve things instead of expecting a hand-out and complaining, they would be better off.

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Richard Dixon
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:34 am

Hate is hate either way. But nice job splitting hairs so as to keep up your record of not once admitting a flaw within your chosen side.

Nothing more than your opinion, which gets disproved by both Tullius and Mede stating that the Empire is planning another war with them. Funny how you ignore that detail when you think it suits your points.


Now your getting it. Imperials absolutely are racist too I've never stated otherwise. Most of Tamriel period is racist. Your gonna have to face the facts that your beloved, never does any wrong Stormcloaks just might have some of the negatives we point out. Doesn't honestly matter if the Empire is racist too, because most of us regular Empire defenders aren't saying they aren't also in the first place. The problem comes from SC supporters in game and on here wanting to act like their faction is some paragon of virtue when in reality they are no better, they just come with different negatives.

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Racheal Robertson
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:21 am

They're hopeful they'll be able to get back to hating each other again soon. Ironic that the Argonians in Windhelm are possibly the descendants of Argonian slaves who escaped Morrowind.

This is all off topic, people. The topic is international relations. I highly doubt anyone's going to send Rolff out as ambassador of Skyrim.

I think the good sir is pulling things out of his hind quarters.
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James Rhead
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:59 pm

I'm afraid it's you missing correct points, not the other way around.

Edit: One needs only look at the polls to see which side does better for Tamriel, All the arguments are changing nothing.

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Vera Maslar
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:54 am

NVM

edited for bickering.

I hit the points rather well.

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Taylor Bakos
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:13 pm

I don't claim the Stormcloaks are perfect: Ulfric is power hungry, arogant and xenaphobic but he offers religious freedom, the empire doesn't
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Lexy Corpsey
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:41 am

Power hungry isn't a bad thing when you want power for a good cause.

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GEo LIme
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:48 am



These people would have voted cheese if it was an option. The poll is flawed anyway and proves nothing.

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Tracey Duncan
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:32 am

Not a bad post.

For those participating in the thread, we are dealing with realpolitik which means politics can make strange bedfellows. A party may hate the Stormcloaks but have their interests best served by a Stormcloak victory likewise a party may hate the Empire but their best interest may be served by an Empire victory. Talk it out and think it through.

Those who think Morrowind has no interest, think again.

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GEo LIme
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:18 am


Explain.
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TOYA toys
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:51 am


Considering the state Morrowind is in, I doubt they have any gains from the Civil War, and would better join the Aldmeri Dominion, since their gods didn't do s**t to Altmers
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Sweet Blighty
 
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Post » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:26 am

Thank you


Really? Care to elaborate on that? I'm sure you have a point but I can't see any way either a Stormcloak or Imperial victory would benefit Morrowind
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meghan lock
 
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