[NIloufar Emporio]

no I will try to create it that way that Elsweyr Anequina have to use the tamriel heightmap as a masterfile (when used together of course)

Some clarification here would be nice. Are you saying you're going to try and make Anequina dependent on your heightmap file? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work considering the vast amount of space Iliana has already worked on with her mod. Even using TES4Edit to perform surgery on it won't be very pretty due to the sheer number of affected cells.

[Ezekiel Macallister]

Some clarification here would be nice. Are you saying you're going to try and make Anequina dependent on your heightmap file? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work considering the vast amount of space Iliana has already worked on with her mod. Even using TES4Edit to perform surgery on it won't be very pretty due to the sheer number of affected cells.

Ilianas Anequina is even right now nearly complete compatible with my new tamriel heightmap. 95 % of her mod use the original tamriel worldspace and only a very few used cells are new generated land, most of them used for having a proper lod. As long as Ilianas mod is loaded after my heightmap only these cells are a problem...for my old Valenwood map I solved the problem by simply removing these cells from my map....but it should be as well possible to make the ElsweyrAnequina.esp dependent on my map using Tes4Edit.....

[rolanda h]

Ilianas Anequina is even right now nearly complete compatible with my new tamriel heightmap. 95 % of her mod use the original tamriel worldspace and only a very few used cells are new generated land, most of them used for having a proper lod. As long as Ilianas mod is loaded after my heightmap only these cells are a problem...for my old Valenwood map I solved the problem by simply removing these cells from my map....but it should be as well possible to make the ElsweyrAnequina.esp dependent on my map using Tes4Edit.....

That is not quite correct. The playable area includes more than 100 new cells including the fringes of Corinthe.

Why should I need to create a dependency? Surely a patch, as existed before, is more than enough.

[K J S]

A patch would certainly make sense. Or make it so it merges without one, although that could me tricky, and would require a lot of co-operation I imagine.

[Oscar Vazquez]

That is not quite correct. The playable area includes more than 100 new cells including the fringes of Corinthe.

Why should I need to create a dependency? Surely a patch, as existed before, is more than enough.

hey Iliana

first of all don't worry I never asked you to make your mod dependent on my heightmap and btw I exactly know which cells are new land as I spent many many hours to make the last Valenwood map compatible with your mod...its quiet easy to check..if you run TES4Edit all cells shown with a white background are new cells....so yep you are right there around 100 or more new cells used but for me these are only "a few cells" compared to the number of cells used in your complete mod or the seize of my complete heightmap....please keep as well in mind that working with new generated cells is completely different to working with original cells...simply patching is not possible as a plugin with new generated cells will completely overwrite any other mod that is loaded after and that is generating new cells at the same location ....what I will try to do is to give people the option to make their ElseyrAnequina esp dependent on my heightmap if they want to use it together....no need to edit your esp in any way...

cheers

[Cat Haines]

hey Iliana

first of all don't worry I never asked you to make your mod dependent on my heightmap and btw I exactly know which cells are new land as I spent many many hours to make the last Valenwood map compatible with your mod...its quiet easy to check..if you run TES4Edit all cells shown with a white background are new cells....so yep you are right there around 100 or more new cells used but for me these are only "a few cells" compared to the number of cells used in your complete mod or the seize of my complete heightmap....please keep as well in mind that working with new generated cells is completely different to working with original cells...simply patching is not possible as a plugin with new generated cells will completely overwrite any other mod that is loaded after and that is generating new cells at the same location ....what I will try to do is to give people the option to make their ElseyrAnequina esp dependent on my heightmap if they want to use it together....no need to edit your esp in any way...

cheers

So everyone who downloads this has to make elsweyr dependent on this?

[Motionsharp]

So everyone who downloads this has to make elsweyr dependent on this?

Can't an esp-to-esp patch be made? Or could Iliana make an esm of the new cells?

this current proposal seems very complex from an end user standpoint, I can use TES4edit and Bash to add dependancies but I am (as Vorians noted this weekend) a little impatient, so I learn to do things myself.

[Sweets Sweets]

Can't an esp-to-esp patch be made? Or could Iliana make an esm of the new cells?

this current proposal seems very complex from an end user standpoint, I can use TES4edit and Bash to add dependancies but I am (as Vorians noted this weekend) a little impatient, so I learn to do things myself.

I think we should just wait until Onra has finished his work and will explain in detail what needs to be done by modders and mod users. I don't think it will be as complicated as it seems right now.

[Setal Vara]

I think we should just wait until Onra has finished his work and will explain in detail what needs to be done by modders and mod users. I don't think it will be as complicated as it seems right now.

I hope not! I also worry about Unique Landscapes as well, especially those that ride near or along the Cyrodiil Borders and goes into other providences!

[Sammykins]

Can't an esp-to-esp patch be made?

Yes, but I'd suggest worrying about that after there's something available to patch.

Something that needs to be mentioned as well - you can't make any of this into an ESM because it edits an existing worldspace belonging to Oblivion.esm. You'll end up with chaos.

[Emmi Coolahan]

Yes, but I'd suggest worrying about that after there's something available to patch.

Something that needs to be mentioned as well - you can't make any of this into an ESM because it edits an existing worldspace belonging to Oblivion.esm. You'll end up with chaos.

Now to mention it, I just hope to god that Onra's Tamriel Heightmap doesn't end up like the German made "Tamriel Total" heightmap where it forces Cyrodiil's landscape to be altered and ruins/alters in a bad way every single mod that takes place in Cyrodiil (especially every single Unique Landscapes to date)! I remembered having nothing but nightmares with the German made Heightmap called "Tamriel Total"!

[Jordyn Youngman]

I suppose I'd have to share that concern as well. I can't see how any good comes of a complete heightmap covering the already existing cells provided by the game. That goes beyond nightmare levels of compatibility problems with any mod that makes even slight adjustments to the landscape. Even if you pushed something like that to the top of your load order, you'd end up with torn landscape all over the place where the height doesn't match up.

Past the borders is another matter entirely though, since most people don't expect a lot of issues to crop up in those cells.

[KRistina Karlsson]

I think it'll only contain the new cells addded beyond the Cyrodill borders. I mean, what would be the point of having another heightmap of Cyrodil? We allready got one, with all it's inherent boredom.

[:)Colleenn]

I am getting really tired of reading the same nonsense again and again and again

sorry but I will post no more infos here before the final release

cheers

[Lynne Hinton]

I am getting really tired of reading the same nonsense again and again and again

sorry but I will post no more infos here before the final release

cheers

Alright onra, best of luck until then.

[Shirley BEltran]

I am getting really tired of reading the same nonsense again and again and again

sorry but I will post no more infos here before the final release

cheers

Yup, I believe you deserve a little more faith for your knowledge and experience on heightmapping Tamriel by now. Like I said: people should just wait until release before making all kind of wild assumptions.

I'll shoot you a PM once I have the terraintextures for ya! :foodndrink:

[Tracey Duncan]

This could be stupid question, but why don't you simply copy Iliana's landscape records to your Tamriel plugin? That way they would be the same and there wouldn't be conflict. Am I right?

[Gaelle Courant]

That would be a working solution to the problem. It wouldn't even require the texture info, just the landscape normals and height data.

[Leanne Molloy]

hey Iliana
first of all don't worry I never asked you to make your mod dependent on my heightmap and btw I exactly know which cells are new land as I spent many many hours to make the last Valenwood map compatible with your mod...its quiet easy to check..if you run TES4Edit all cells shown with a white background are new cells....so yep you are right there around 100 or more new cells used but for me these are only "a few cells" compared to the number of cells used in your complete mod or the seize of my complete heightmap....please keep as well in mind that working with new generated cells is completely different to working with original cells...simply patching is not possible as a plugin with new generated cells will completely overwrite any other mod that is loaded after and that is generating new cells at the same location ....what I will try to do is to give people the option to make their ElseyrAnequina esp dependent on my heightmap if they want to use it together....no need to edit your esp in any way...
cheers

Ok, it sounds like you have it all in hand. Someone asked me if I was going to make a new version of Elsweyr to be compatible with this, and then I noticed the discussion about it here.
I understand its much more convenient building the overall heightmap first without having to worry about the Elsweyr mod, and then perhaps find some method to make them compatible later on.

[~Sylvia~]

Ok, it sounds like you have it all in hand. Someone asked me if I was going to make a new version of Elsweyr to be compatible with this, and then I noticed the discussion about it here.
I understand its much more convenient building the overall heightmap first without having to worry about the Elsweyr mod, and then perhaps find some method to make them compatible later on.

hey...

from the very beginning my heightmap(s) were designed to work with Elsweyr Anequina ...the last version of the Valenwood/Southern Elsweyr heightmap worked just by having the right load order and using a patch... sadly I had to remove a lot cells from my heightmap to make it compatible ( you can see this when you load just the Valenwood heightmap in the CS heightmap editor)
this works fine but only if used together with your mod...not a perfect solution, especially for people don't using Elsweyr Anequina
so you are absolutely right...first I will finish the complete heightmap so that it works without any other mod..then I will start making it compatible with Elsweyr Anequina...

cheers

[Anna Krzyzanowska]

Howsabout you all stop worrying and just wait for the results? Onra knows what he's doing and most certainly will NOT produce something which replaces the Cyrodiil parts of the existing heightmap. Doing so would just be foolish and Onra is no fool. Such a mod would probably be incompatible with Oblivion.esm!

This could be stupid question, but why don't you simply copy Iliana's landscape records to your Tamriel plugin? That way they would be the same and there wouldn't be conflict. Am I right?

That would be a working solution to the problem. It wouldn't even require the texture info, just the landscape normals and height data.

No it wouldn't (at least not exactly), not unless Onra made Tamriel Heightmaps dependant on Elsweyr. Because new cells conflict in the complete opposite to how everything else conflicts (normally last-loaded wins and overrides any conflict before it, with new worldspace cells in an existing worldspace, earliest-loaded wins and overrides [underrides?] everything loading after - and if a cell gets overridden, all non-persistent objects in that cell will disappear) if Tamriel Heightmaps were to simply contain a copy of the cell records and heightmap from Elsweyr DoA and loaded first, they'd override Elsweyr as the Form IDs would still be unique so all non-persistent objects would be missing - then a patch would have to relocate literally every single non-persistent placed object from Elsweyr DoA into the Tamriel Heightmaps cells. If Tamriel Heightmaps was loaded last, Elsweyr would override Tamriel Heightmaps, and a patch would still be needed along the borders of Elsweyr's cells. Actually in my ignorant opinion, this sounds like a reasonable move - have Tamriel Heightmaps load after Elsweyr, so that those not using Elsweyr would simply have the Tamriel Heightmaps cells, and those using Elsweyr would have the DoA cells and a patch for the DoA cells border. This patch would be smaller than if the two heightmap mods were swapped around.

Onra will already have considered the most reasonable way to do things, and will make clear how it all works once it's ready to work.

[NIloufar Emporio]

Actually in my ignorant opinion, this sounds like a reasonable move - have Tamriel Heightmaps load after Elsweyr, so that those not using Elsweyr would simply have the Tamriel Heightmaps cells, and those using Elsweyr would have the DoA cells and a patch for the DoA cells border. This patch would be smaller than if the two heightmap mods were swapped around.

yep indeed this would be the perfect solution and this was the first thing I tested for the first version of the valenwood map ( it works with Stirk the same way)...sadly Iliana has created a lot more new land ( probably for later expansions or as lod) which is not really used ingame (at least at the moment)...so having ElsweyrAnequina loaded before the tamriel heightmap would mess up nearly the complete south of Elsweyr....

cheers

[Suzie Dalziel]

yep indeed this would be the perfect solution and this was the first thing I tested for the first version of the valenwood map ( it works with Stirk the same way)...sadly Iliana has created a lot more new land ( probably for later expansions or as lod) which is not really used ingame (at least at the moment)...so having ElsweyrAnequina loaded before the tamriel heightmap would mess up nearly the complete south of Elsweyr....
cheers

Your main heightmap esp is only going to contain heightmap data isn't it? No trees or landscape texturing or anything else?

Wouldn't it just be simple to create your main heightmap and then later make a slightly altered version to work with the Elsweyr mod which has a few cells snipped out in that area?
It should be a simple as deleting edits to the three quads Elsweyr uses with TES4Edit, and in the fourth quad with the non-vanilla cells agreeing on a line on the x-axis where my ends and yours begins and snipping out those cells. Your heightmap would just override anything else in mine beyond that and a patch could smooth over the borderline.

Of course your main heightmap would still be complete, and the second would be identical in every way except for a piece snipped out. I assume once your heightmap esp is complete it is unlikely to be changed aftewards, so a second slightly clipped version of the same wouldn't require any future maintenance.

[LittleMiss]

Your main heightmap esp is only going to contain heightmap data isn't it? No trees or landscape texturing or anything else?

Wouldn't it just be simple to create your main heightmap and then later make a slightly altered version to work with the Elsweyr mod which has a few cells snipped out in that area?
It should be a simple as deleting edits to the three quads Elsweyr uses with TES4Edit, and in the fourth quad with the non-vanilla cells agreeing on a line on the x-axis where my ends and yours begins and snipping out those cells. Your heightmap would just override anything else in mine beyond that and a patch could smooth over the borderline.

Of course your main heightmap would still be complete, and the second would be identical in every way except for a piece snipped out. I assume once your heightmap esp is complete it is unlikely to be changed aftewards, so a second slightly clipped version of the same wouldn't require any future maintenance.

hey

yep this is one of the options I was thinking of and exactly the way the current Valenwood map works right now....

[Lory Da Costa]

Kia Ora


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