Myths are based on simple, usually illogical, explanations for the seemingly unexplainable. If myth is truth in tamriel, then I suppose we have to think simply and abandon logic?

No, no, no, you can't disprove the model, by calling it 'old elven myth.' Yes, it is Aldmeri in design. The Gray Maybe is central in the Aurbis. If this wasn't so, Talos wouldn't be possible; Lorkhan would be a falsehood, as too Nirn. This is fundamental to the symbolism.


This?

Mundus/Nirn is not displaced, instead, it repeatedly appears in the center. The pattern is reinforced.

But yeah, you were curious as to how a tare could be scewed as having an orbit, and I answered that, actually using some of the fiction to corroborate the answer. This discussion will never cease.

It was an old elven myth; much of its momentum may have been due to the Ayleids' replicating of it in Tamriel. Perhaps in some sense, Nirn is in the center of the mortal plane, given it is where the Divine Pact occurred, but I do not believe that it means that it must be in the literal center. Such is the nature of mortals, to take their perceived importance a step further. In hindsight, it's understandable. The Daedra can't be trusted to tell the truth, and the Aedra would just say what the mortals already believe or want to believe.



It's all relative. To the mortals, their only perspective is from on Nirn, seeing everything in the sky move around them.

Yet, for the Aldmer, memory of life before the Wheel still pained every breath in the new world. They were intimate with the perspective of the et'ada, and they chose the wheel model. Mortals have been visiting the Outer Realms for thousands of years. Interest in their universe is not a new phenomena.


That's all you need to say. Nirn is the mortal plane, Talos is its center, the circle within the circle. The hub is there, so the rest falls into place.

While they have been visiting the outer realms for some time, it is done through gates and portals, and the Daedric planes are too far off to observe Nirn.


It need not be in the physical center of the mortal plane to be its metaphysical center.

Is there anything concrete that suggests this, aside from them having similar spheres?

Of course travelers won't see Nirn; they're in another dimension all together. Travel requires an excellent map, or else you become lost. Travelers, and other transcendentaly minded individuals, wouldn't use a false map. Would you stake your life on a false map, if you knew it to be untrue? [No, you wouldn't] Point being, the universe is layered, Nirn is the center, and Magnus orbits Nirn.


The two are intrinsic to one another. If I were to say: metaphysics is based on physics, and vice versa, I'd be right twice, because both are true. Regardless, you've supported the Convention, by merit of supporting the 'Divine Pact' of Cyrodiil. The universe-as-layers model holds true.


Nope, not at the moment. I'll need to reread these sources:
Varieties of Faith
Aldudagga
and http://www.imperial-library.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1226517265/41#41

I don't think they're in other dimensions, as Oblivion can be seen in the night sky. I think the planes are out there somewhere, too distant to be seen from Nirn even with the aid of a telescope, basically extrasolar planets.

As for Nirn, mortals, especially elves, tend to consider themselves the center of everything. Again, I say that Nirn is pretty important in the Mortal Plane, as it is where the Divine Pact took place and took hold. But it doesn't make it the literal center of the universe. It could just have been the location of the Divine Pact because it was Lorkhan's plane. And outside of Mundus, it's not nearly as important. The reasons for such beliefs are due to widespread elven myths. Not only has it been spread further by the Cyrodiilic Empire, which borrowed from both the Ayleids and the Altmer, but the very idea that everything revolves around Tamriel is pretty appealing to mortals. To quote Haskill:


Ah, the elves. That most self-centered of mortal races. It is inconceivable that anything could occur that has nothing at all to do with them. Do you really think that Oblivion exists solely as a shadow of Mundus? That everything that happens here is connected in some way with your pitifully limited world? I can tell you, speaking only for myself, of course, that sometimes entire minutes pass without me thinking of mortal affairs.

http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/si_interview.shtml



I do not believe the Divine Pact created the universe, nor was it the center of it. Such is just typical mortal thinking. The way I see it, it merely altered a small area surrounding Lorkhan's plane.

The planes are not just really far apart, however. You can't reach them by moving outwards from Nirn, because they are co-terminous with it. Remember the Telescope anology? It's repeated in Arena Supermundus, so I think here is where we can better reconcile the view of Mankar [originating http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/nirn.shtml], with traditional belief. If the realms are co-terminous, then they share a center. For the et'ada which became the Daedra, the Convention was still the center their worlds were built around, as it was for Nirn. I admit I was wrong headed, too, but I think we were both truthful. Unless you don't want us to be truthful, in which case, you'll need an ample arguement to dissuade us.

Or so says the Imperials. Me, I'm a bit reluctant to believe what they say about things that they cannot prove.

Creation myth? Hoo boy. First off, that whole phrase smacks of Monkey Talk-- and we thank Talos to this day for their turn at Glenumbria-- or the Wheel-Eyed Wonderment of the east devils-- who at least have the wheel part right, but that's so obvious as to offend your own navel, which is to say, wasting the time of even wasting time...

and with that, good day.