Tamrielic opinions on the sun : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:53 pm

I'm wondering if there is any lore on sun in Nirn's solar system. Do any cultures have any explanation of what the sun is and how it came to be?

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:29 am

Magnus left just before the creation of Mundus, and ripped a hole through Oblivion into the Aetherius. This hole is seen as the Sun. Other spirits soon followed, but their holes were not as large of Magnus's, and thus they are the stars.

Oh, and a warning. Do not go to the Aetherius, the spirits living there have a rule that says "No interacting with outsiders." Look to what happened with Miridia, she did it and her dad, Magnus, tossed her sorry ass out.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:26 am

Snip

Thanks, I knew that was the case with the stars, but didn't know the sun was included.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:45 am

Miridia, daughter of Magnus... and she is a Daedric Prince, too?

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:06 pm

Yeah, some of the Daedra have special circumstances like that (Malacath as well). Basically anything divine that didn't participate in creation is technically a Daedra (not including the ascended mortals like Talos or Vivec, they are something else entirely).

Other than that, the Magnus-hole theory is really the only one I've ever seen. Though knowing the Yokudans, they probably have their own weird theory

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:10 pm

Miridia, daughter of Magnus... and she is a Daedric Prince, too?

Well, she wasn't before, but became one when she began to live in Oblivion. What Darkom95 said is pretty much right.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:15 pm

Malacath was not a Prince originally? didn't know that.
who else, then? besides out CHIM-ified duo and Miridia and Malacath that is.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:52 am

Malacath was not a Prince originally? didn't know that.
who else, then? besides out CHIM-ified duo and Miridia and Malacath that is.

Hrmm, maybe Sheogorath.

» Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:19 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:Elder_Scroll.jpg

notice one of the Aedra (Shore) is Padomaic, and 8.5 (I'm assuming the half is Malak, who was originally mortal) Daedra are Aedric.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:11 pm

Dagon was the King of Leapers (Magnus?). Xarxes/Jhunal is now Herma Mora, although Julianos was preserved elsewhere. Arkay was born the moment Mundus was severed from the Aetherial, so he didn't participate, but he's an Aedra.

» Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:05 am

Magnus left just before the creation of Mundus, and ripped a hole through Oblivion into the Aetherius. This hole is seen as the Sun. Other spirits soon followed, but their holes were not as large of Magnus's, and thus they are the stars.

Stars being similar I get. but the whole "smaller" thing may be a mortal perspective issue. I mean, mortals don't typically get to see the stars up close, since they lie in the waters of Oblivion far off.

» Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:07 am

Dagon was the King of Leapers (Magnus?).

I have my doubts with that. I'd say he was just some king (or leader of sorts) of the Leapers who also leaped between Kalpas to not get consumed by Alduin. He may have originated the leaping and as such has survived longer than most from being consumed, and taught others the secret of leaping.

Stars being similar I get. but the whole "smaller" thing may be a mortal perspective issue. I mean, mortals don't typically get to see the stars up close, since they lie in the waters of Oblivion far off.

Then why is the sun so large?

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:24 pm

I have my doubts with that. I'd say he was just some king (or leader of sorts) of the Leapers who also leaped between Kalpas to not get consumed by Alduin. He may have originated the leaping and as such has survived longer than most from being consumed, and taught others the secret of leaping.

I can think of quite a few interesting ideas regarding this, but I'm better off introducing one crackpot theory at a time.

Then why is the sun so large?

It's the closest one to Nirn. What I've been thinking of is the sun seen in the Shivering Isles and wondering if that is one of the stars in Oblivion, placing the Shivering Isles somewhere in the Oblivion seen in the night sky, but impossible to observe from Nirn, even with a telescope.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:20 pm

I have my doubts too, but the Leaper King conspired with the Greedy man, as Magnus had with Lorkhan. Magnus was the first and biggest to 'leap' out of creation.
He really likes sun symbolism, too.

» Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:20 am

Isn't the sun a hole between Aetherius and Mundus through which magicka flows out?

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:37 pm

I have my doubts too, but the Leaper King conspired with the Greedy man, as Magnus had with Lorkhan. Magnus was the first and biggest to 'leap' out of creation.
He really likes sun symbolism, too.

True, but he was eated by Alduin in the end, and became Dagon. Magnus is still kicking it in the Aetherius, unless so many sources are wrong, and people are looking at strange texts that either make no sense to me or are not really that available.

Or I'm feeling to sick to really think.

» Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:32 am

True, but he was eated by Alduin in the end, and became Dagon. Magnus is still kicking it in the Aetherius, unless so many sources are wrong, and people are looking at strange texts that either make no sense to me or are not really that available.

Or I'm feeling to sick to really think.

What if Alduin's belly is Aetherius? What if Magnus' departure hole is Alduin's mouth? It isn't that the sources are wrong, they're just told through different perspectives. I like the Aldudaggavelashadingas better.

» Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:23 am

What if Alduin's belly is Aetherius? What if Magnus' departure hole is Alduin's mouth? It isn't that the sources are wrong, they're just told through different perspectives. I like the Aldudaggavelashadingas better.

Then why didn't you say that in the first place!? Though it was noted that things did pop out of Alduin's nose, but he'd quickly eat it back up.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:31 pm

cuz I didn't think about it until 3:40 am.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:13 pm

It's the closest one to Nirn. What I've been thinking of is the sun seen in the Shivering Isles and wondering if that is one of the stars in Oblivion, placing the Shivering Isles somewhere in the Oblivion seen in the night sky, but impossible to observe from Nirn, even with a telescope.

I don't know about that. Just about everything about Tes cosmology separates itself from real life astronomy: the planets aren't really round, Nirn is the center of the universe, the moon actually has holes growing in it, etc. Basically everything looks the same, but has a different reason for looking that way. So I'm hesitant to agree with a theory that strikes such a similarity between real life stars and Tes stars, though in the end it is open for interpretation.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:45 pm

I don't know about that. Just about everything about Tes cosmology separates itself from real life astronomy: the planets aren't really round, Nirn is the center of the universe, the moon actually has holes growing in it, etc. Basically everything looks the same, but has a different reason for looking that way. So I'm hesitant to agree with a theory that strikes such a similarity between real life stars and Tes stars, though in the end it is open for interpretation.

From what I've seen, however, the cosmological beliefs aren't exactly supported by anything other than myth. And while myth is a powerful force on Nirn, it's got some major limits.

The other thing is that I can't recall anything saying Mangus orbits Nirn. Given it's believed to be a giant tear in space, I'm doubtful that the standing belief is such.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:07 pm

The other thing is that I can't recall anything saying Mangus orbits Nirn. Given it's believed to be a giant tear in space, I'm doubtful that the standing belief is such.

Mundus is believed to be a wheel, and Nirn its center. Standing on Nirn, it is aparent any point in the rim of Mundus would move faster than the center. That's how a tare in Mundus orbits Nirn.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:13 pm

Mundus is believed to be a wheel, and Nirn its center. Standing on Nirn, it is aparent any point in the rim of Mundus would move faster than the center. That's how a tare in Mundus orbits Nirn.

I believe the wheel model is a Tribunal myth though. Cosmology, which gives the Imperial viewpoint, gives no mention of a wheel. Different cultures have different takes on it.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:51 pm

The Wheel is universally represented as the interplay of Anuiel and Sithis. It is a model, otherwise known as an accurate depiction.

Point being, Nirn is the center, so the sun can't be. One more thing, the Wheel is the Aurbis, not Mundus. My bad. Magnus still moves faster, though.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:17 pm

The Wheel is universally represented as the interplay of Anuiel and Sithis. It is a model, otherwise known as an accurate depiction.

Point being, Nirn is the center, so the sun can't be. One more thing, the Wheel is the Aurbis, not Mundus. My bad. Magnus still moves faster, though.

The reason it's as represented as it is would be because it's a very old elven myth. Given it's found in both the Ayleid and Dunmer ideas, it likely has an Aldmeri origin. And the Aldmer are known to believe themselves to be the center of everything.

There have, however, been mentions of such wheels in the plural sense. It may be an offshoot or development of the original idea. Or just an unseen aspect of it.