Is there a way for two people to work on the same mod without taking turns? How do you team modders do it? I would like to have multiple people work on the same mod simultaneously and then some how merge the two iterations.

The only real way to do this is to use a Master File and each of you master your own esp's to that one main file -> then every day or two merge the esp's into the master and start with a fresh esp that way the master eventually carries all of the data but two different people can work on the same mod as long as they are not working on the same parts of the mod.

Cool, thanks again SaidenStorm.

I would also suggest that your work overlap as little as possible in order to avoid conflicts.

I have wondered about exactly this thing, and if Bethesda's version of the GECK handles it any differently than ours does.

If you have a navmesh problem, sometimes the GECK will be like "please fix this before checking in", which made me wonder just how that works, over there.

I'm not sure what you mean by overlap. Do you mean working on the same records? I figured one person would be working on scripts while the other works on clutter (for example). Or does it have to be like one person works on one cell and the other works on a different cell.

They just can't be editing the same resources, is my sense.

2 people working the same cell sounds like the worst possible thing though!

But if one guy is writing object scripts while the other is writing dialougue, that would be ok, right?

When I made this suggestion I had merging in mind. If work is divided up with each person doing a different type of work, I would suggest that the first person completely finish with a cell or area (as much as possible) before the next person starts.

My point being that you don't want multiple people accidently changing the same record.

Just carefully define what each person will be doing. FO3Edit and FO3Plugin can be used to merge and purge seperate files into one .

That would be fine since objects and dialog are two very unrelated tasks.

You just dont want to be placing objects in the same cell, or doubling the Nav-meshes...

Absolutely. There's no overlap so FO3Plugin could merge them together without issues.

First let me say thanks to every body for responding.
Second, let me pose two more qustion. When we make the current file (which is an ESP) into a master, does it need to be a real master with file extension change as well? And, The "new" ESPs need to have two masters, yes? Fallout3.esm and ourmaster.esm, right?

Tarrant. I have worked with workflow software before and this "checking in" may refer to that. If that is the case then their version would definately be different that ours. With a workflow package, devs "check out" parts of the database which then become locked to other users until these records are "returned" to the server. Much the same way one checks out a book at the library. I am almost certain that this is how the Bethesda's version worked. Although it is not dependant on the GECK, but rather the workflow software that manages the GECK's record database. Lotus Notes was like this.

You don't need to change the file extension, and the new file will have to have two masters. You'd need to change a ini setting for geck though, the "bAllowMultipleMasters" if I remember correctly, to edit it with the Geck.

Aha I see! Yes that would really, really prevent people from editing the same game resources and hosing things for one another, if that's how it is.

Sorry for that goofy post, I think when I spell checked it I didn't pay attention to some of the changes it made. Looks like I was on drugs when I wrote it.

In Project Valhalla, we always took turns for editing, if there was any need to do something at the same time, we just started a new .esp and combined it later. That is quite difficult though, and may result in some errors if not done correctly.

Has anyone experimented with using version control software, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion_%28software%29 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_Versions_System? I would expect a need to write a frontend to automate esp merging, but with some of the advanced tools already out there, it is likely doable.

They would work for keeping each developers copy of an ESP separate, but you can't automatically merge stuff together with GECK plug-ins - with one exception...

... FO3Edit. FO3Edit is the best tool available for merging and managing Fallout3 mods. While it's not going to do the things Subversion or CVS do (We use Subversion at work for all our code), FO3Edit will allow you to easily merge changes between mods into a single plug-in or master. You can even compare two versions of the same mod from different developers and cherry-pick the records you want to copy from one version into another.

I think a mod team with one person in charge of using/understanding FO3Edit to merge the changes into one plug-in would work just fine to help a mod-team avoid messing each-other up.

In my view the biggest challenge to working with a mod team is not the technology, its the organization skills and commitment of the team members to work together for however long it takes. If you have good people working on the team, it can beautiful and amazingly productive and efficient. If you get team-members that are not committed, don't finish their work or even wander off into other hobbies, it can turn into disaster real fast. I was recently asked to help finish a mod that had a team, but due to real-life reasons people dropped out and it's stalled. I would wager that more mod teams fail due to people issues than to technology issues.

As such I would recommend a that the team leader keep this in mind, keep tabs on each team member, help when people get stuck and always have a backup-plan so that if person A or B falls through, person C can pick-up their work. Between managing the team well and having a good plan/road-map on how to get to the end will be invaluable to a team's success.

Luck,

Miax

I think you are very correct in this, but sometimes lack of technology can turn a team member off from continuing work.


The main problem with using Subversion (or other version control software) is that it does not understand how data is organized in the esp/esm files. This could be overcome by making a frontend that extract the data in the esp and save it to a temporarly text file, that could be committed and merged into the existing data. An update could convert the current data file to a text file, merge it with the data from the repository and build a new esp/esm. It would likely take some work to construct good format for the text file, and it would probably be pretty verbose (likely one line per field in the record).

I believe ElminsterEU is one of the few people in the modding community with the detailed knowledge of record-types and save-game formats as well as the coding and data skills to make SubVersion work. I agree it would be a nice feature for mod teams working together, but it seems like alot of work to me for something that would get used by very few people - and a ton more questions/support head-aches. So yes possible, but not likely.

With what we have today, I think a mod team's work can still be managed in FO3Edit very efficiently as long as one person on the team knows FO3Edit well.

Miax

I just had another reference to "check-in" pop up!


FORMS: Package has an invalid flag set to true. To fix, check out, view, verify flags, hit OK, then check back in.


hmph! I kinda want their GECK version, now! It sounds like we could all make one giant mod together. haha!

Oh I'm so stoked about that idea. The Fallout 3 Geck forum's modder's mod. Sounds like a business proposal to me.

BTW with that error about packages.. if you try to look at the list of packages in the GECK window, and scroll down to the package with the problem. the geck blows up in your face. I hate that.

It means that the only way to edit the packages for the bad flag would be to open up each NPC that carries each package and edit it there. If that even works. Blah.

The Geck blows up cause you didn't "check out" the record. lol

When I made the bartender for the casino mod, I kept it as a .esp before I merged it with FO3Edit, that way there would be no hassle if another team member had made a change to the mod's .esp file. So the method SaidenStorm mentioned is so far the most efficient method, and with FO3Edit it's easy in most cases to collaborate.
Just my two caps..
Artorp