As a software professional, I fully understand the amount of work/testing/QA and, let's face it, red tape involved in releasing a patch. I also fully understand that, even with using licensed code, releasing an AAA title for three major platform poses quite a challenge. And Fallout never meant to be simple, linear games, so yeah bugs are not only inevitable but sometimes even spruce up the gameplay experience positively (as in, it is a bona fide bug but sometimes you just LOL, I can live with that). If one takes the rose-tinted nostalgia glasses off, older Fallout games had their (more than?) fair share of bugs.

However, there is a limit to tolerance. For starters, I do not know about the XBox, never bothered about this one (and by saying this, I am in no way putting the platform down, I just never happened to own one or read the specs about it ) but the PS3, as opposed to the PC, is a standardized hardware/software system making testing a bit more easier. One of the main reasons that I choose to enjoy my games on game consoles, as opposed to PC, is that I expect a certain modicum of quality, little if any showstopper bugs, and even if such a bug rears its ugly head, I expect to be addressed within a reasonable amount of time.

I am also paying a premium for it, by doing the right thing and not pirating the game (it is my understanding that piracy is a widespread phenomenon in the PC, as opposed to the virtually (well, it pretty much is, if you want to make the most of it) unhackable PS3) so everyone is happy, the dev studio, the publisher, the shops and last but not least and US the honest-to-goodness PAYING CUSTOMERS. It looks like however than in this case, the PAYING CUSTOMER is getting the short end of the stick and guys, let me tell you, where I come from (southern EU with severe credit problem as a country :nudge: :nudge:) the choice to spend the full amount as opposed to mindlessly download it for the PC is a choice that does not come easily for a few people. When the PIRATE across the street has it better than the PAYING CUSTOMER and LHAO, while enjoying the torrented incremental patch, something is seriously wrong.

I consider bugs such as crashing on entering Strip and the Ant Nectar one (both of them seriously degrading my playing experience, that is when the game does not suddenly decides to kick the bucket) as bugs that should have been caught and stomped on way, way before RTM. I also expect that (again, given a standardized platform such as a game console) patching should be somewhat easier, so why is there not a patch adressing those issues yet? Not a comprehensive one, just a quick-n-dirty fix for the BUGS THAT RUIN THE GAME COMPLETELY RENDERING IT UNWINNABLE.

I fully understand that yes FO:NV is an AAA title and yes, FIVE MILLION GAMERS (at the very least, according to sales figures) are pushing the game to its limits and/or trying to exploit it forward-backwards and inwards, so yeah, you will get the odd kid posting "extremely difficult to trigger bug that will happen only to %0.00000001 of the players" but we are not talking corner (or difficult to reproduce) bugs.

I understand that you are using 3rd party components, rendering addressing certain issues to a support request and, if you are lucky, a few VP calls,
I understand that you guys have deadlines and the usual turmoil that goes with any major software project, I feel for you but this is AN INSULT.

Straight from the horses mouth: "Wanted to update everyone on the status of the game updates/patches. We're working on the final touches for PC, 360, and PS3. Once they're available, we'll let you know " posted November 18 2010.

Given the sales figures of FO:NV, I am sure that there are more than enough financial resources there to add more resources to the team and speed up the fixes. I also find INSULTING the fact that there is no timely news updates regarding the state of the patch. I hate to mention names but compare this to Blizzard's approach who post significant gameplay changes well before patch time!

I could rant on and on regarding other signs of lack of attention to detail (at the very least, the "energy weapons are nerfed guy" OWNED UP to this oversight, a tip of the hat to you Sir!, now how about that QA team and the deadlines guy) but then the conversation, which this post tries to kickstart, would be likely to devolve

Having bought every Fallout RPG, after getting acquainted with the budget version of Fallout 1 (meaning, somehow it has slipped under my radar and I picked it up when the GFX were not exactly jaw-dropping), I honestly find it a shame that a 2010 level fails to match even UNPATCHED FALLOUT 2 technical standards.

All in all, a beautiful game, a game that was designed obviously with love and substantial effort, a game that would have been the PERFECT way to end the decade of 00-10, a game that would demonstrate what is possible is let down by some horrendous, childish bugs.

To sum it up, I am saddened that a game that I WAITED SO LONG FOR ( it is the closest we have to Fallout-2 Next Gen for us old timers!) is not RESPECTING neither MY HARD EARNED MONEY nor the 70+ hours I have put into it( which are not easy to come by, I'll tell you that).

PS - English as a second language and my dictionary can only catch this many "grammatical bugs"

Thank-you. Eloquently reasoned and argued. And your English - better than many native speakers. Bravo, bravo - especially for your emphasis on the standardized hardware/software issue with a console - and most especially, with noting that bragging rights to "5 million games sold" ought to equate to resources needed to FIX THIS DAMN GAME!

Did I say, bravo?

I agree with you on all your points, we THE CUSTOMER got to pay 60-80+ (80 for me) dollars to bend over and take it. I too have played every one of the fallout games lol even the 1st one on console, dont remember the name. To see what Obsidian, not to mention some of the ppl who worked on the original, have done to the reputation of the game is quite disappointing.

Thankfully I have not been locked out of any areas, yet, but the constant freezing and plethora of other bugs have made this game, which is very fun and I have put around 180+hrs into on two toons into since release, very frustrating very often.

Agreed!

One other thing I find quite disheartening is that it's obvious that a game with such issues as this one has will most likely get a price drop fairly quickly since sales will likely drop off very quickly as word of these issues get around. I find it to be a very difficult pill to swallow that we (the ones who paid full price of $60+) are left to play the fools for investing in this game when we did and yet those who will pick it up at a discount price will likely not be punished the way we have been by having to wait weeks or months after their purchase to play the game and enjoy it in it's entirety and uninterrupted by the problems that plague us.

It would seem to me that if Bethesda were interested in getting repeat business from those of us who have so far bought a worthless product, they might want to consider offering some sort of bonus to us all as an apology for their complete lack of respect. I, for one have no plans to ever purchase another product from this company after this experience. This game is absolutely and without a doubt the single worst experience I've ever had from any I have ever bought for the PS3. I have no idea how this game ever made it through testing and QA to make it to release when it did and in such a poor state.

In fact, I feel as though we all were duped into paying full price to participate in the beta version of FONV, and in fact I have played beta versions of other games that were in much better playable condition than this one is.

Unless Bethesda has a plan to compensate me for the value I've lost on this game while waiting for it to be in playable condition I will never again pay full price for any game they make in the future and I would recommend that every one of us considers the same action. A patch to fix all current issues and some free content may convince me to believe this was all just a mistake on their part but as of right now I really am in the belief that this was completely intentional and that they released this game to us all in this shape knowing full well that it would be unplayable for quite some time. I find that to be not only disrespectful but also I feel it shows nothing short of contempt for us all...the fans of this series who were willing to pay the full price for this product without even a second thought that it would be produced with all the care and quality that we have come to expect from what we thought was a trustworthy and qualified game developer.

I have a game company literally down the road from me,making mainly sports games for all the consoles(HB Studios) and the other day I had a good idea. I'm going to go over there and I'm going to ask the chief designer how they make their games and the QC testing process. I just want to know how another company would do it,and then,when I have the technical stuff in my mind I would like to ask them what they think of this abomination called New Vegas.I'm sure someone there out of 130 or so employees would know why this game is such a disappointment and maybe they could share a few tips on how to fix the game and I could send the info to Fallout's designers.I'm glad that this game isn't the norm for gaming,because if it was,we'd all still be playing Pong(which currently is above F:NV on my list.)

Regardless to say, games require time and if there isn't enough time they have to cut corners... Cutting corners is something that is veryyy noticeable in the New Vegas. The fun is still there though, just when some annoying bug occurs thr is that sudden hate and motive of throwing it out the window..

It's down from ￡39.99 to ￡19.99 most places in the UK now. Because some people traded it in early, you can find pre-owned copies going for more than you can get it new now, as shops try to recover their preowned trade in deal. Oops.

Deleted.

@ Rwxangs

You are 100% right brother. The freezing bugs are awful and they appeared in Oblivion GOTY as well as in Fallout 3 GOTY. So why are they still such a problem? I don't get it.

Bethesda isn't even interested to solve this Problem. Nearly one month without any news for getting rid of the freezing bugs. No one of them is saying anything here. It's a terrible pity.

Like you, I BOUGHT every Fallout game. Fallout 3 even twice, one time for PC and then for PS3. I only feel screwed by the fact that the game is still freezing that much.



I hope ANYONE of Bethesda reads this and gets to know, that this was the last Bethesda title I BOUGHT, if the freezing bug isn't fixed as soon as possible.

I took my copy back last week, swapped it for assassins creed brotherhood.
I've leant my leason with Bethesda games, any future fallout & TES games, i'll be checking out this forum before buying to make sure they run properly

Okay guys, here's a suggestion -

Flaming is a warnable offence on this forum. Rude and condescending remarks about a person's grammar and paragraph layout falls under flaming. Personal insults also constitute flaming. Not to mention nothing drives a thread off-topic quicker than such shenanigans. For new members, who may not have read the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1120448-important-forum-information/ yet, we give a little bit of lee-way. Consider this post to be that warning to get back on-topic and stop insulting each other.

Further need to intervene in this thread can (and likely would) result in a lock of this thread and/or warning level increases.

What about the random freezing, lagging and lock ups in New Vegas? It's not just about the 'bugs', there seems to be some sort of corruption/performance issues with the entire game when played on the PS3.

Never the less... The issue of many bugs, I believe is from timing intervals -- You can turn off Kill cam in the New Vegas options and actually keep the game from freezing less.
Kill Cam is also, a timing interval, I have had many freezes when it says... Critical hit and a Kill Cam que happens... Turning the Kill cam off in the options will prevent some small freezes.

A timing interval.... First, a interval: a sectioning off; a differential sequence that is breaking a consistence -- I found that many timing sequence from Hunger, Daytime/Nightime passage, Sleep, and water sometimes break in sequencing(Intervals) of cache queing.

I also done some thinking about the strip error -- After returning to the Strip and killing Ceasar, along with updating the Securitrons with that upgrade... The Strip no longer allows me to enter -- Freezing the game... Its annoying, but I believe its from being vilified and having other quests not being failed, or dropping from the quest list. --OR-- it could be that I'm vilified in the strip and the new Soldier securitrons do not que in the vilified routine ... Meaning it is a faction error.

Nope, I'm done with this thread. So it gets locked. I don't have time to babysit this any longer.

Edit - reopened for the time being. If I see any more reason for a moderator to intervene, it's going to remain locked, however.

As far as I can tell, no word on the patch yet ... Gee, it only has been 2 weeks after the "finishing touches" post.

Personally, even not my my own choice (I have planed 2-3 more characters and playthroughs for FO:NV but no, sorry, enough with this nerve racking business) I have bought Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, A game that regarding development is quite similar to FO:NV
- successor to a previous title, re-using a lot of the GFX/mechanisms
- similar 3rd party components to FO:NV
- a healthy budget to go around
- reviews mentioned bugs during initial release

Once I got the game, I pop in the disk and patch 1.02 start's D/Ling
So far, a couple of glitches and no critical bugs whatsoever.

This is how you do it Bethesda!

At the moment I don't really see the point in trading in the game seeing as a patch will be released eventually.

The game crashes/freeze is a pain but at least the PS3 version dosen't have the whole issue of corrupt saving

i would like to know why the mod thinks they need to lock this thread. Because we're complaining about a product that does not work? I thought that was the whole point behind having a board for us to do so. The game is broken. The designers gave us a broken product. It needs to be fixed.

Because the moderators locked the thread temporarily to do a clean up and deleted several long posts that were nothing but posters correcting other posters grammar, spelling, and making derogatory remarks about females that were made after a mod asked that the off-topic grammar/spelling/etc stuff stop. Generally continuing to post off-topic stuff after a mod asks you to stop ends up with the thread locked and the poster or posters involved warned with a 24 hour + posting ability suspension.

Just in case people still haven't read the forum rules:



So posting about the glitches and bugs and problems you are having with the game is fine. Criticizing someone's grammar and spelling is not. Not only because these forums don't require perfect grammar and spelling to post, but because grammar and spelling have nothing to do with the topic of this thread or of this forum. If you have any questions about what a mod does or posts, please send a pm instead of side-tracking a thread. If the off-topic stuff continues, the thread will be locked.

The mods locked this thread because of some flaming going on (apparently they deleted the offending posts). I appreciate that mods provide an explanation every time they lock a thread, and I've never seen a thread get deleted outright - which is more gracious than a lot of mods are.

Look around this forum, and you'll see some threads with fiery criticism of Bethesda - some of it laced with ignorant and childish invective - that remain open. I don't see any reason to think that the mods aren't letting us dissatisfied customers have our say.

Oops - ninja'd by a mod. DARN THEM ALL!!!

Locking/deleting - pretty much the same thing.

The bias exists in that a thread is threatened to be locked/closed even if the OP has no involvement in the "flaming" (and certainly the OP has no control what-so-EVER over the people who subsequently post in the thread).

So, the threats to close, and the closings punish the OP really, who, more often than not, has nothing to do with the flaming.

And, because most posts censuring the game/Bethesda/Oblivion are usually met with requisite calls of "whining, stop complaining, my game isn't broken- it can't be that bad for anyone else", etc - a very large percentage of threads that take Bethesda and Obsidian to task- are closed because these posts are then met with anger/frustration that legitimate gripes are being poo- poohed.

Closing a thread in which the original post is not violating any rules - is ALWAYS a mistake imo. In FACT closing threads critical of FONV and/or Bethesda/Obsidian is exactly what the "rabid fans" want, (as evidenced by their constant admonishments to anyone who dares complain about this wreck of a game).

Punish the offenders - not the original poster. Closing threads and squelching negative opinions are EXACTLY what some people want.

You do, of course, realize that this off-topic post should be enough to get this locked, since it completely ignores what both mods who posted in this thread asked, right? Are you one of the "rabid fans"?

Everyone who has an account to post in the forums has access to the report button. Here's a revelation: If someone, anyone, reports a problem before it gets out of hand so there isn't a ton of garbage to go through, chances are much better that the mod who attempts to clean it up will be able to do a clean-up and leave the thread open. Sniping back and forth between posters with off-topic posts that quote other off-topic posts increases the probability that there will be too many posts to clean up, so the thread gets locked. Someone who came into a thread about glitches and bugs only to say "I didn't have a problem so no one else should complain either" is off-topic and could be reported if people don't feel like simply ignoring the pointless post.

Now, for the love of Tiber Septim, the Divines, and the Tribunal, if anyone has a question about why a mod did something, take it to pm. Do not further derail the discussion with off-topic posts.

Please don't threaten me. It only detracts from your veracity.

I was making a statement regarding things as I see them, in general, as they are handled, in general.


You want to delete/lock and or ban me? Go ahead - but please don't threaten me.

Have a good evening.

edit: Oh, and as for "reporting" people, did it ever occur to you, that the people who are unhappy with things as they are have no desire to report others? They don't care that the fans refuse to see things as they are, only to the extent that they NOT try and limit rights to complain/point out problems/hold Bethesda/Obsidian responsible etc. I've never reported a post in my life - I'm not about to start now.

Too bad others didn't have the same courtesy.

I have to give the mods credit. They have a tough job on this forum. There's a lot of trash to sift through on these forums, and yes, trash includes bad-mouthing a game company. Asking why a game has issues is fine, but saying something along the lines of "Oh there's so many glitches in this game, Obisidian is a bunch of lazy jerks" is trash. Especially in this specific group of topics, considering this section of the forum is for the sole purpose of discussing issues on the Playstation 3, nothing else. The problem is that no one from Obsidian ever frequents this corner of the forum unless it's to say "Sorry guys, the patch isn't ready." From what I've seen It's pretty bad, and I used to be on the Bioshock 2 2k forums.

The personal interactions I've had with two mods have been productive and clearly they were open minded and willing to look at issues from all perspectives. Clearly this job is not an easy one, but, just as clearly, some mods are not as skilled at removing their personal biases from their moderation duties.

In any case however, closing a thread in which the OP is not at fault, is, imo a mistake. Yes, it may be more laborious to delete the posts that are guilty, but in the long run in doing so, neutrality is better preserved.

jmo.