In redguard they had cannons and zeppelins. In the 200 years between oblivion and skyrim someone must have made SOME progression in figuring out how at least some of the simple dwemer stuff worked and figured out how to incorporate it.

No it's not. It's a fact of the history of the planet of Nirn and the civilizations that have arisen there.

with your first point I agree with you.....thats right by Resdayn...and the capital of the Dwemer, Dwemeris is in the velothi mountains.

but the dwemer did not stretch into Nord territory, the Falmer stayed there and when the nords came the borders did not extend all the way out where Markarth was. a Dwemer ruin so far east makes no sense...

Perhaps the historians in the Elder Scrolls just got it wrong??

EDIT: As in the in game characters that would have written the book we got all of our information from.

There were Dwemers in Hammerfall as well. Maybe these Dwemers inhabited in Skyrim as well.

It's been THOUSANDS of years since the Dwemer disappeared and barely any progress has been made. What's another 200 years? That said, I would expect someone has made some progress with Dwemer technology for the sake of story progression, but I doubt it will be incorporated into daily life at all.

They figured out how to use their air ships in Redguard. I'm not saying that they've incorporated their tech into daily life, but at least figured out the simple things like their weapons (crossbows and ballista)

Ok. I'm not being clear. I'm sort of responding to two different kinds of settings. A setting in which magic is commonplace, and a setting where magic is rare.

In a low-magic setting, technology will advance quicker than in a high-magic setting.

In a low magic setting, there is good reason to investigate weapons and armor. That need is less when you already have something to do that (magic).

I imagine a setting in which the non-magical people are in an arms race with other magical and non-magical people. You will always be looking to outdo your competition. This applies to economics, politics, science and various other fields.

Innovation comes from necessity, but wouldn't the drive to be the best or outdo competition be as much of a catalyst?

If the fighters guild fought the mages guild, you would see the warriors looking for ways to outdo their magical foes. This means they need to figure out how to fight fire with fire. The mages on the other hand will no doubt seek further magical powers because that is there forte.

So maybe I wasn't doing a good job distinguishing between a high-magic setting and a low-magic setting.

PeteAtoms, I believe that there aren't any fantasy setting with high magic which successfully solved these problems realistically. Authors tend to imagine some sort of medieval society with its' traditional attributes, and then hurl a lump of magic right on top of it. Indeed, if thinking process behind TES universe was shifted more to the side of "realistically-modelled society with magic as inherent part of the setting" instead of "different-modelled humanoids act medieval while some of them can fly and jump from Vivec to Pelagiad", then it would be completely different universe. And I am *not* sure that it would be better, more interesting, more successful than one we have now.

Still, point remains: technology in fantasy world with magic is not really needed beyond the point of convenience. Sure, it is more practical to build a bridge, because not everyone is Nerevarine with buffed Endurance and ring of Fortify Jump 100. But there aren't any real obstacles for random peasant, or, well, legionnaire to learn some magic. Yeah, they probably aren't Altmers and Bretons born under signs of Atronach, Apprentice or Mage. Still, their inherent magickal reserve is enough to cast some basic spells, like rudimentary healing, shield and fireball. Remember first dungeon of Oblivion — you was exactly that kind of guy, without any skills or background, but able to cast spells.

And yes, most NPCs do not cast spells. Why? Because this is medieval world with some magic attached, not magic-shaped medieval world.

You can say that because of THAT last statement, this world could have technology as an alternative to magic. I believe that if setting to develop, this world will evolve into more magickal society, because magic brings *SO* much advantages. People will try to learn spells at all costs. All people. And if some can't, then others will do magic for them.

Yes to this line or reasoning. A thousand times yes.

Um, there were even Dwemer on Stros M'Kai, about as far west you can go in Tamriel and not even on the mainland: http://fessicsfavorites.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/empire-of-tamriel.jpg

Well observed!

Remenber Isaac Asimov's briliant Foundation series, where the First Foundation counted on technology while the Second Foundation relied and developed the mental sciences?

I definitely do not want any tech in TES games

Those Dwemer went to Hammer Fell LONG after the Nords made their territory, they are a splinter group called the Roruken who did not want to ally with the Chimer against the Nords. again the fact that the Dwemer were at war with the Nords, it makes no sense that even the Roruken would build a city smack dab in the middle of Skyrim. if it was eastern skyrim ok, that would make sense, lost borders, but its in the west...mid west to be precise, it makes no sense.

Explain how it doesn't "make sense". Native Americans come from Greenland (Inuits) and Inuits settled in Canada too, which is between the starting and end destination, what doesn't make sense? The same can be said for the Aborigines, who came from Asia and settled in Australia when their end destination was New Zealand and even as far as Maori. Come on. Vikings went to North America and settled Iceland on the way.

Actually, I can't recall a single event in history where someone didn't set out on a journey to go really far and ended up dropping off a lot of people on the way.

I would like more hidden doors and elevators - Daggerfall had heaps of these and levers and portcullises, lots of mechanisms to add variety to the dungeons.

...............look at this lore wise because by your standing there should be Khajiit in Valen wood and Cyrodiil as well since they were here before the Nords and Dwemer went on the move.


The Dwemer went to morrowind, their capital was in east Morrowind in the velothi mountains, their empire stretched as far as southern morrowind, they resided with Giants who gave them the nickname dwarves when really Dwemer means Deep elves as in Deep in thought, The Chimer came and contested morrowind with the Dwemer until the nords started kicking both of them over, by then Skyrim or rather the Nord Territory was as it is now, the dwemer did not build in the north, and definently NOT OVER ENEMY TERRITORY if you looked at a map you'd see Markarth is in the west, the only dwemer that went west were the Roruken, why would the roruken who are brash enough to not ally with the chimer to fight the nords build right in their territory? by your thoughts their should be Dwemer ruins in Cyrodiil as well, its not like the Devs didnt include dwemer ruins in Cyrodiil for shix and giggles, the Dwemer never settled Cyrodiil.... this isnt some Migration where the Dwemer spread out like tribals, and the Roruken who had a definent idea of where they were going wouldn't plasture about and leave people behind, especially not in enemy territory. the nords where here when the Dwemer were at the height of their power...

Because of a bunch of nerds who insist "it wuld nhance teh immershun!!one!!1!"

While I am opposed to technology finding it's way into TES, I find this statement hilarious considering the advance of technology IRL over the last two hundred years, compared to the last 4000.

Someone say technology?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJWHt3EeiwE&feature=related

While we are throwing technology into Skyrim, I would also like a smart car! Far more effeciant than a horse, and you car park them almost anywhere! And without any other cars existing in that universe, there is no threat of hitting another much larger vehicle! It's perfect!

But seriously, I would rather we don't have technology. That's how these work, magic or technology, mixing them usually ends up badly.

The necessary conditions for that kind of RL exponential growth not only aren't present for Tamriel, they don't even fit the Tamrielic framework of what it means to progress in the first place.

Obviously they have conditions for technological growth, otherwise the Dwemer would not have produced there marvels. Magic takes study. You only need one alchemist, devoted to finding a way for the common man to find a simple way of defending himself against dangerous beasts and you get gunpowder. Steam engines to increase trade would negate the need to pay a mage to create favorable winds, if this is even a practice. Or less labor at the oars. As for framework, there was no framework for getting dragonshouts from killing dragons in Oblivion, but lo and behold, we have one now.

As I said though, I'm against adding technology myself, but acting as if it wouldn't make any sense is just silly.

Since everyone is pretty much clinging to their own opinions, what are some techs that you would set the limit as? What would make you say, "I don't want advanced tech, but I think [blank] might be alright?"

Where do you draw the line?

[Oh, and the architecture found in TES shows an incredible amounts of engineering and structural knowledge, IMO]

I'd be ok with clocks for example. Why no clock towers? Are hour glasses seriously the only way to track time?
Some plumbing would be nice. Wells are pretty rare IIRC. Aqueducts would be sweet.
Water wheels, windmills, irrigation
Telescopes, binoculars or lenses in general (maybe reading glasses).

These things are some examples that I wouldn't call outside the realm of possibility.

No technological advancement is part of the typical fantasy world. It tends to ruin games, such as fable (which wasn't very good to begin with)

And if that explanation isn't good enough then here is my second answer:
Just because.