[Shaylee Shaw]

Alright, I tried that and found that set
set nGCD.iRacialAttributesOffset to 0 ; 0
set nGCD.fRacialAttributesRatio to 0.855 ; 1.0
set nGCD.iAttrMin to -1 ; 0
There were one or two skills that were off by a level of the normal ones (tried on a Redguard). But that was about it.
Will I run into any problems later or does that only affect the starting attributes?

I also changed Luck
set nGCD.bLuckAlwaysIncreases to 1 ; 0
set nGCD.bLuckGetsClassAttr to 1 ; 0
set nGCD.iForceBaseLuck to -1 ;-1

It will automatically increase with the other attributes? eventually to 100?

Thanks

Yes to the luck question. The "off" level should be do to "set nGCD.fRacialAttributesRatio to 0.855 ; 1.0"

[Epul Kedah]

Yes to the luck question. The "off" level should be do to "set nGCD.fRacialAttributesRatio to 0.855 ; 1.0"

Leaving it at 1.0 messes it up by a few levels. 0.5 which tejon suggested is off by a few and .855 was the closest I could get.

[Laura Elizabeth]

Just to be clear -- it's only the attributes that are "off," right? nGCD doesn't touch skills, and the "new" level calculation should properly adjust so that you always start at level 1. If this is not the case please let me know.

[Christine Pane]

Just to be clear -- it's only the attributes that are "off," right? nGCD doesn't touch skills, and the "new" level calculation should properly adjust so that you always start at level 1. If this is not the case please let me know.

Ya, my mistake I meant attributes. Will these effect anything other than starting off attributes?

[Wayne W]

Will these effect anything other than starting off attributes?

Nope! The caps remain at 100 unless you set AttrMinRaisesAttrMax, and all of nGCD's math is automatically adjusted. At this point, you should be able to just forget it's there!

[Jose ordaz]

Nope! The caps remain at 100 unless you set AttrMinRaisesAttrMax, and all of nGCD's math is automatically adjusted. At this point, you should be able to just forget it's there!

Great, thanks for the help and the mods.

[Marquis deVille]

I got the whole console dump:

Error in script 0200db4e
An expression failed to evaluate to a vaild result
File: nGCD.esp Offset: 0125b Command: Let

It repeats for around 5 times and all my attributes are at 0 including health, magicka, and fatigue.

[Connor Wing]

Error in script 0200db4e
An expression failed to evaluate to a vaild result
File: nGCD.esp Offset: 0125b Command: Let

Unfortunately I'm currently missing the tool which lets me translate that offset to something useful... are you receiving this error every time you start a new game, i.e. not loading a save? And, has it ever worked? If yes to the first and no to the second, my first suggestion is to check your Oblivion\data\ folder for a subdirectory named _tejon\ and make sure that it contains nGCD.ini and nGCDSkillSpread.ini.

Edit: Okay, got that tool again... looks like it's most likely a divide-by-zero error caused by bad settings. If you do have the .ini files in the right location, check the setting for iAttrMax.

[Natalie J Webster]

Ok, I think I know whats wrong, I put the _tejon files into my data folder, instead of putting _tejon there.

[Rudy Paint fingers]

Minor status update: with Formulator basically functional, I'm back to work on Ars. The current painfully long process is rebuilding all vanilla potions (and later, OOO's) to approximate certain equivalent spell costs, and then turning off autocalc and reducing their gold value to match the calculation for player-made potions. There's no game setting which lets me adjust the autocalc value of a potion, so this looks like the only way I can make player potions have consistent value with vendor potions and make that value low enough to reduce the "alchemical gold pump" effect, at least in the early game. Note that the base value I've gone with is only about 20% lower than vanilla: the merchant buy/sell price adjustments provided by any good economy mod make a big difference, and anyone actually concerned about reducing easy gold is using one of those (or should be). As in MagLite, you also need 25 Alchemy to make potions at all, and with the provided settings you get better skill gain per ingredient from wortcraft than from mixing potions, which make alchemy-as-income less of a no-brainer. Negative effects on a potion reduce its value, and multiple effects increase it, so you'll have to sell the actually useful potions for the best profit, instead of dumping the tainted ones and keeping the best for yourself with no drawbacks. The effects of equipment beyond just the mortar and pestle affects the final value of a potion, but such equipment is dramatically more expensive (starting at 400g for novice and ranging up to 10,000g for master).

Mortars and pestles beyond novice are also much more valuable, and they work a little bit differently. An apprentice mortar adds 12.5% of your Intelligence to your Alchemy skill; Journeyman adds 25%; Expert adds 37.5%; and Master adds 50%. However, if your current skill is less than that mortar's mastery level, its contribution is reduced. If you have at least 25 Alchemy, you will receive the full bonus of an apprentice mortar. You can get a slightly higher bonus from a better mortar, depending on how close you are to 50 Alchemy, but a master's mortar gives no more than a journeyman's. Once you hit 50, you're receiving the full bonus of a journeyman mortar, and starting at 51 you can get slightly more out of an expert's or master's. Hopefully this all makes sense.

[Naughty not Nice]

"Negative effects on a potion reduce its value, and multiple effects increase it, so you'll have to sell the actually useful potions for the best profit, instead of dumping the tainted ones and keeping the best for yourself with no drawbacks."

Hooray! That (and everything else you wrote) actually makes sense! I've always been bothered that any old merchant will happily buy dozens of restore fatigue potions that I made right in front of them from their carrots and tomatos.

Now, if you can only find a way to make clutter valueless. I imagine something akin to damage threshhold, but with economic value. Something like, any item whose calculated worth < 5g is made to have a selling value of zero.

gothemasticator

[Dean Brown]

Wait. This calculation change on potion's and negative effects is not present when making poisons, right? It'd be rather dumb to have your poisons get stronger but be worth less, don't you think?

[Mr.Broom30]

Wait. This calculation change on potion's and negative effects is not present when making poisons, right? It'd be rather dumb to have your poisons get stronger but be worth less, don't you think?

It sure would, O ye of little faith. Poisons are handled correctly.

Through the Marvelous Powers of Mathematics, I've fixed two out of three of the broken potion formulae by adjusting some game settings depending on what equipment you're carrying when entering the alchemy menu. Using a retort and calcinator is now better than only one or the other for Dispel potions, and alembics don't get stronger when you equip a calcinator (i.e., the weakest side effects come with an alembic but no calcinator). Calcinators are still applied twice to poisons if you have an alembic; this one's harder because the settings involved are used for other effects, though I do have one more trick to try. The power of all the alchemy equipment has been dialed back a bit (except mortars, as described last post), and you can no longer reduce negative effects to 1 point no matter how good your alembic is.

Fire poisons will have lower magnitude but greatly increased duration, dealing significantly more damage overall. Frost poisons will have equal magnitude and duration, dealing respectable damage over a fairly short time. These two changes unfortunately don't show in the potion creation screen, but you'll see them the moment you return to inventory. Shock poisons are instantaneous, and this change does show during creation. And in a searing stroke of irony, I discovered that I can do this cleanly without using Formulator. So Ars probably won't require Formulator. So I didn't really need to spend all that time on Formuator just yet. But whatever, it's something I've been wanting to get done anyway and will see use elsewhere.

I've implemented a filled soul gem price adjustment method that's far simpler than the one in Enhanced Economy, but also incompatible with other things that edit soul gems. However, anything else can safely override mine, and EE's inherenly takes precedence and should yield identical results. So if my lightweight version suffers a conflict, just give the other mod precedence and activate EE's repricing instead. The price of a full gem is a consistent ratio to the point value of the soul it contains, and the price of an empty gem is a ratio to its capacity; overall, most gems are slightly more valuable. (Empty Grand gems are a bit cheaper.) The value of an enchanted object is, save a few rounding errors, equal to the value of the gem plus the cost of enchanting it; you can't make a profit as an enchanter, but you also don't take a serious loss. You can make a profit as a soul hunter.

There are a lot, I mean a lot of enchantments in the game. Still plowing through those, editing most of them. Oof. I'd rather replace the whole system using http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1016697-wipz-automatic-random-enchantment-system-ares, but all things in time...

[Adrian Morales]

I know your busy with other mods, but I just gotta say that I really wish that nGCD recalculated the trainings per level upon level change.

I wish I had payed closer attention as to when that stopped working ... it could have been moving to full obse 18, a mod conflict, or - and I was thinking about this ... what if what causes it to go awry is when you use training to advance skills that then level you (because of being trained).

As it is I had set the max training per level to 100, but now after 2 level ups the trainings are still subtracting from that same number of 100.

Next level up will not involve any training - I'll report if any change.

[Nathan Risch]

I know your busy with other mods, but I just gotta say that I really wish that nGCD recalculated the trainings per level upon level change.

The bottom line on this is, it's not a priority for me. The recommended setting is 9999 sessions per level because that's effectively unlimited, and to me that's just a work-around for the fact that I can't make Oblivion stop counting sessions entirely. The concept of trainings-per-level is flawed at the core IMO (as is the concept of level as something the player is aware of), and my solution for preventing training abuse is ProgressGCD and a good economy mod. And even disregarding all that, I would have to change some core design aspects of nGCD to do what you're asking in a truly reliable way, i.e. never resetting when it shouldn't. So it's very difficult and completely uninteresting to me. Sorry to be blunt, but that's that.

On the magic front, I'm on the final stretch of reworking staffs to be more consistent. They will now always have a charge quantity which matches up to a soul value (though this includes 6th and 7th rank souls which don't actually exist). Generic staffs have a charge cost equal to half the base magicka cost of their effects; certain unique staffs will be even more efficient. This should make staffs far more attractive, as recharging them is cheaper than it was in most cases. Not all staffs have 100 health anymore either, and I'm thinking about making their health actually go down with use. And wow, this sure was a short update for how much work I've done.

[Guinevere Wood]

Well yeah that certainly is blunt, but nothing I'm not used to around these parts.

It is frustrating because it used to calculate it and stopped and I'm not sure why.

So I know it can be done because for a while it did do it - I suspect that it broke when training to skills the raise my level and not having it happen through normal skill usage. But what do I know? Also the last time I used Realistic Leveling it calculated it and it is a setting in the RL ini. I'd use RL but it lacks the minute control that nGCD has. Besides what leveling mod I'm using now - I'm sticking with till the character retires.

As for philosophy of it I get it - learning blocks ... we all have them - knowledge reaches critical mass - need real world experience for it to sink in further - you know, books alone never enough. Practical application required for that lesson to make sense ... to prepare for the next breakthrough. That, to me, is realism ... but since we are at the stage of being blunt then this is the last I will say of it.

[Lexy Dick]

It is frustrating because it used to calculate it and stopped and I'm not sure why.

If you can figure out the answer to that question, it might open doors. On my end though, I've never seen it reset training, which is why as far as I can tell it would take a major re-design to fix it. If the problem became simpler, my inclination to tackle it just for kicks might rise, so it's worth still paying attention to how it's behaving for you.

[City Swagga]

Well first off - I guess I'm tired (and a bit cranky - sorry) - as I look at the nGCD ini there is no setting for trainings per level that is in the Progress ini. I guess nGCD doesn't cover it.

Here is as best I can figure - I had never got into training the character that much, so had never really payed attention to it, but did utilize the new pool of training sessions each level.

What I can recall is that I had changed the amount of trainings per level in the ini from 10 to 20 then went to a trainer to train my - I think it was marksman - I trained it from 47 to 50 (enough to take an examination a la C&C). Doing that training leveled my character (to 19 as I recall). From that point on the game started counting down whatever was in the ini and did not reset at level ups (I think 2 since then).

Figuring out why is beyond me, but those are two things I never did before:
1. Change the amount from 10 to 20 (10 being what I had originally set).
2. Be in a training session while leveling, as in ... I did not exit the menus between trainings.

So I'm noticing a new bashed patch tweak for trainings per level - is there a way to turn it off in Progress/nGCD so that Wrye Bash tweaks could handle it? Or would just setting that tweak overwrite Progress (it loads later, but I'm not sure if Progress has a script that would win anyway).

Guess I should test that ... and ...

[edit] the answer is no - just activating the tweak in the bashed patch does not override the Progress setting. So unless there is a way to turn off this entry in the Progress ini the issue remains.

that is the best report I can give at this point - if I think of anything else substantial I will post it. Otherwise I will keep my complaints to my self.

[ANaIs GRelot]

I have just installed ngcd, progress, willful resistance and fizzle. I have a couple of questions (maybe more than a couple). I don't always get messages that I'm supposed to from mods initializing so I'm not sure if progress is working or not, I'm pretty sure it's installed correctly. Is there any way I can check in the console if progress and ngcd are initialized?

Fizzle is great, I've got it set to 0 pct chance to cast for this character who is totally inept at all the schools of magic. I"m also hoping to be able to configure it so that a future vampire character will not be able to cast restoration without damaging themselves. Willful Resistance I'm not too sure about yet, NGCD seems to tie in willpower increases to other skills as well as from magic or have I misread it.

[Rachel Tyson]

So I'm noticing a new bashed patch tweak for trainings per level - is there a way to turn it off in Progress/nGCD so that Wrye Bash tweaks could handle it?

Well, you could always disable Progress for testing. However, I don't think this line of investigation will bear any fruit. Changing the training limit can be done from the console with no effect on the recorded number of sessions used.

It just occured to me, though, that there's a very easy solution. It's not properly integrated with how nGCD works, but it'll get the job done in a brute-force kind of way. Just toss this script on a start-game-enabled quest. Edit it into nGCD or one of the Progress modules if you're short on load space.

Spoiler

ScN ForceTrainingResetScriptfloat fQuestDelayTimeshort playerLevelbegin GameMode	if (GetGameLoaded)		let fQuestDelayTime := 0.01	endifendbegin MenuMode 1009	; Dialog	if (GetGameLoaded)		let fQuestDelayTime := 0.01	endif	if (playerLevel < player.GetLevel)		let playerLevel := player.GetLevel		SetPCTrainingSessionsUsed 0	endifend

Meanwhile: artifacts are getting some tweaks for consistency. Most of them are very close to the originals, but to anyone who likes Umbra just fine the way it is, I apologize. I think my version's way cooler.

[JLG]

I'm just reminding you about the script effect nulling change that needs to be applied to WR. I've overwritten the record with SM's of course. Does that record even need to be... never mind.

[Sebrina Johnstone]

Well, you could always disable Progress for testing. However, I don't think this line of investigation will bear any fruit. Changing the training limit can be done from the console with no effect on the recorded number of sessions used.

It just occured to me, though, that there's a very easy solution. It's not properly integrated with how nGCD works, but it'll get the job done in a brute-force kind of way. Just toss this script on a start-game-enabled quest. Edit it into nGCD or one of the Progress modules if you're short on load space.

Spoiler

ScN ForceTrainingResetScriptfloat fQuestDelayTimeshort playerLevelbegin GameMode	if (GetGameLoaded)		let fQuestDelayTime := 0.01	endifendbegin MenuMode 1009	; Dialog	if (GetGameLoaded)		let fQuestDelayTime := 0.01	endif	if (playerLevel < player.GetLevel)		let playerLevel := player.GetLevel		SetPCTrainingSessionsUsed 0	endifend

Meanwhile: artifacts are getting some tweaks for consistency. Most of them are very close to the originals, but to anyone who likes Umbra just fine the way it is, I apologize. I think my version's way cooler.

Thanks!

But that is beyond me at this point. the most modding I've done is worldspace placing and a house mod. I will bookmark though if I ever get there better at it.

[Tiffany Castillo]

But that is beyond me at this point. the most modding I've done is worldspace placing and a house mod. I will bookmark though if I ever get there better at it.

Heh, this should be a snap if you've done that much. With the script provided, I think the hardest part of it is launching the editor with OBSE.

The pencil button is scripts, open that window, Script -> New, paste in what I gave you, change the script type to Quest, save, close the scripts window.

Click the big Q, right-click in the list on the left, make a new quest, name it ForceTrainingReset. Find the Script drop-down (middle, near top), select ForceTrainingResetScript. "Start Game Enabled" should be checked by default. Click OK, save the mod!

I'm just reminding you about the script effect nulling change that needs to be applied to WR.

WR is on the "re-build with Formulator" list. Nearly everyone knows how to fix un-silenced scripts, so the number of people actually having a problem with that should be low enough that I don't think it needs a hotfix before that major upcoming revision. I just checked and found that BOSS loads it very late for some reason, though, which might make the issue a little more common... why would a purely scripted mod not be at the very top of the list?

Something that does need a hotfix is Birthsigns Expanded, though. A couple of days ago I discovered that the Mage's Ablation power contains a copy-paste blunder and will not work as intended. I also doubled the duration of the Warrior's Warwyrd a long time ago and never uploaded it, plus the consensus seems to be that Serpent's Soul Hunger is currently unmanageable. As soon as I work out that last one I'll post an update.

[SUck MYdIck]

Heh, this should be a snap if you've done that much. With the script provided, I think the hardest part of it is launching the editor with OBSE.

The pencil button is scripts, open that window, Script -> New, paste in what I gave you, change the script type to Quest, save, close the scripts window.

Click the big Q, right-click in the list on the left, make a new quest, name it ForceTrainingReset. Find the Script drop-down (middle, near top), select ForceTrainingResetScript. "Start Game Enabled" should be checked by default. Click OK, save the mod!


WR is on the "re-build with Formulator" list. Nearly everyone knows how to fix un-silenced scripts, so the number of people actually having a problem with that should be low enough that I don't think it needs a hotfix before that major upcoming revision. I just checked and found that BOSS loads it very late for some reason, though, which might make the issue a little more common... why would a purely scripted mod not be at the very top of the list?

Something that does need a hotfix is Birthsigns Expanded, though. A couple of days ago I discovered that the Mage's Ablation power contains a copy-paste blunder and will not work as intended. I also doubled the duration of the Warrior's Warwyrd a long time ago and never uploaded it, plus the consensus seems to be that Serpent's Soul Hunger is currently unmanageable. As soon as I work out that last one I'll post an update.

No rush.

[Lewis Morel]

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12149

• Warrior - Warwyrd duration increased from 30 to 60 seconds.
  
• Lady - Energy resistances reduced from 50% to 25%.
  
• Mage - Ablation script fixed.
  
• Tower - Warden weaknesses increased from 50% to 75%.
  
• Serpent - Sting damage to Health, Magicka and Fatigue is now 1% of caster's maximum per second. Soul hunger reduction when target dies increased from 6x to 60x soul rank.