[Patrick Gordon]

Are you seeing the updated descriptions for the races and birthsigns? (They should match the ones in the descriptions at the top of this thread.)

If you enable only TRAP and B.E. and start a game, do you get their changes?

[Tiffany Carter]

Figured I'd push these both out at once, so people don't have to dither over whether or not it's safe to start a new character...

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12149
Updated sign documentation in post #4.

• Several scripts updated with OBSE 0019 commands.
  
• For the most part I've cut all signs down to one ability, one greater power and one lesser power. (The Ritual and The Shadow are exceptions.)
  
• Warrior:
  - Resist Paralysis reduced from 100% to 50%.
  - Warwyrd no longer tallies damage received during the effect. When it ends, Health and Fatigue will be returned to their pre-Warwyrd values.
  
• Lady: No change to design.
  
• Lord:
  - Trollkin regeneration increased slightly, now 1% per second.
  - Clutch the Heart removed. Too many odd problems; it was a crazy-complex script with some sketchy engine work-arounds.
  - Skipped Beat and Polyrhythm removed, concepts combined into Time Lapse lesser power.
  - Wulfharth's Pyre is now stops regeneration and deals fire damage equal to your regeneration rate to all within 30ft. for 30 seconds. Time Lapse affects the rate of damage.
  
• Steed:
  - Charioteer Speed bonus increased from 50 to 100.
  
• Mage:
  - Epiphany removed. Compatibility and balance concerns.
  - Grasping Aurbis replaced with Eye of Magnus greater power: it's Warwyrd for magicka.
  - Ablation script fixed (was picking an effect incorrectly). Ablation does not cause Exertion while Eye of Magnus is active.
  
• Apprentice:
  - Bonuses to Health and Magicka reduced from 50 to 35.
  
• Atronach:
  - Bones of Earth no longer causes immobility, duration increased from 30 to 60 seconds.
  
• Ritual
  - Blessed Touch enemy duration reduced from 30 to 12 seconds.
  
• Thief:
  - Twilight Reaving transfer percentage increased from 50% to 62%, Soul Trap duration reduced from 120 to 30 seconds.
  
• Lover: No change to design.
  
• Shadow: No change to design.
  - Fixed a bug in Contagion, was applying all damage to Strength.
  
• Tower:
  - Tower Warden is now a scripted effect which increases all Fatigue, Health and Magicka damage by 62%. Duration increased from 6 to 12 seconds. Casts on target (was touch).
  
• Serpent:
  - Sting damage increased to 2% of caster's base Health and 3% of caster's base Fatigue/Magicka per second (from 1% of each). Duration reduced from 30 to 12 seconds. No longer restores Fatigue/Health/Magicka for caster. Soul Hunger reduction per second increased tenfold (reduction on target's death unchanged).

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26216
Updated racial descriptions in post #5.

• Several scripts updated with OBSE v0019 commands.
  
• Many skill and attribute bonuses have been reassigned. There are some very significant changes, but I believe the new spread makes for a more interesting set of options without violating the lore or expected "feel" of each race.
  
• Altmer gain Resist Paralysis 50%, hearkening back to Daggerfall. (In fact, the nerf to the Warrior's paralysis resistance above was specifically to make an Altmer Warrior extra-special...)
  
• Bosmer gain the "Wild Aspect" power, a burst of savage ferocity.
  
• Imperials gain the "Pride of the Dragon" power, a boost to Luck.
  
• Nords (re)gain the "Woad" power, which protects against physical damage.
  
• Redguards gain the "Adrenaline" power, which restores Health and Fatigue.
  
• The following powers and abilities work the same but have been rebalanced:
  Argonian Sap Tongue
  Altmer Deep Magicka
  Bosmer Beast Tongue
  Dunmer Ancestor Guardian
  Khajiit Eye of Fear
  Orc Berserk (Resist Magic component)
  
• Orcish Magicka-to-Health conversion formula refined/corrected.

[Sammi Jones]

- Clutch the Heart removed. Too many odd problems; it was a crazy-complex script with some sketchy engine work-arounds.

poop =/ i really liked that ability and never had any problems with it. are you planning on reimplementing it in a later update or was it just to messy?

ill just have to want to update till im done with my char that uses the lord sign =)

[chloe hampson]

poop =/ i really liked that ability and never had any problems with it. are you planning on reimplementing it in a later update or was it just to messy?

I'm not sure. OBSE gets better every week, and I haven't been keeping up on all the details... a better solution might already be right under my nose. But truth be told, I also felt that there were some cognitive dissonance issues with it. I mean, the Oblivion implementation aside, lore supports birthsign benefits not being that rare (there are common books about them, and in Morrowind everyone had one); and if there are more than two or three people in the world at any given time who can, essentially at will, cause miniature dragon breaks... seems there would be far more notable repercussions.

Meanwhile, while the new Lord isn't quite as unique, its powers tie together in a far more intuitive way and are just as appropriate to the lore behind it, if not slightly more so. So while I totally love the effect, I'm starting to feel that this is the wrong place for it. I could totally see it as the reward for a lore-heavy quest, though.

ill just have to want to update till im done with my char that uses the lord sign =)

No harm there!

[casey macmillan]

Tejon, is it possible to limit Bosmer's Play of Shadows power to specific surroundings (non-urban ones)? It is a bit of an exploit to be able to turn invisible in the Arena, for example (and thus have no difficulty in sneak-shooting your opponent(s)).

[StunnaLiike FiiFii]

Tejon, is it possible to limit Bosmer's Play of Shadows power to specific surroundings (non-urban ones)? It is a bit of an exploit to be able to turn invisible in the Arena, for example (and thus have no difficulty in sneak-shooting your opponent(s)).

Well, there are quite a few ways to turn invisible in the Arena. Among other things, Invisibility spells come to mind. And differentiating the Arena from e.g. Vilverin not a particularly easy thing to do. (Well, in the very specific case it is; but a generalized "urban" is a lot tougher. And I don't like the idea of a super-special case for just the Arena.)

Is this a theoretical concern, or actual play experience? Are you really finding it that easy? To be honest, I've frequently worried that Play of Shadows is too limited -- you have to be already undetected, you have to remain immobile, once broken there's a six second timer to re-activate. It's trivial to lengthen the timer, if that's necessary. I'm curious what other relevant mods you're running, though... for instance, increased sneak attack multipliers for ranged attacks are common and probably unbalanced all on their own; and yeah, Play of Shadows could exacerbate that.

[Jacob Phillips]

Tejon, Do you see any concerns with merging the Progress ESPs (recommend)?

[Matt Terry]

Is this a theoretical concern, or actual play experience? Are you really finding it that easy?

Actually, I found that gamebreakingly easy in the Arena only. Made defeating those triple opponents a walk in the park (given that it is an ability available at level 1 and not a high-level/costly spell/scrill/potion). Outside that, the concern is more theoretical. Like, why would a forest dweller be able to "disappear" in the middle of a road. Or even right in the open at noon with no shadows anywhere.

[Sarah Knight]

Hmm... on the other hand, if you're trying the Arena at level 1 (and made it that far!) maybe you're not modded enough.

Good point about the middle of the road, though... I could easily check for actual shadows, or at least total amount of light on the player -- same check as for Khajiit night-eye. Need to see if "canopy shadows" trigger that, though -- not being able to vanish when surrounded by trees would be the opposite irony.

[Rob]

I followed the readme to upgrade from nGCD RC6 to 2.02 and I ran into a problem.
...create a save without nGCD active. Activate clean mode as described above, then load the game with nGCD disabled and save again.
I went to sleep for 4 hours and my character leveled up, I saw the level up screen. I had just saved before going to sleep. Turns out, I forgot to enable the 2.02 ESPs.

I enabled the new ESPs and checked the readme again. If you are upgrading from a pre-2.0 version, you should delete the following files:
Data\menus\levelup_menu.xml ;Done
I could not find any of the *.dds files.

Then I loaded my save from L23. Checked and my char was indeed L23. Went to sleep for 4 hours and woke up. Checked the level up stats and my char was L43. :shocking: When looking at the save files under the load screen, the level says 24.

At this point, I'm going to revert back to nGCD RC6 and the save prior to level up. I will preserve the save files, in case you need them.

[Tiffany Castillo]

Then I loaded my save from L23. Checked and my char was indeed L23. Went to sleep for 4 hours and woke up. Checked the level up stats and my char was L43. :shocking: When looking at the save files under the load screen, the level says 24.

Yeah, it's becoming clear that I need to adjust the defaults for the new level calculation. Most of that conversation is http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1129545 on the nGCD v2 release thread, but to summarize: go into the new nGCDCalc.ini and reduce the value of the first setting, nGCD.fLevelFactor. It's a simple multiplier on your level -- e.g. if the 1.0 default gives you level 43, 0.5 should give level 21 (rounding down from 21.5).

The final default will probably be somewhere in the 0.6 to 0.8 range; I'm waiting for some more feedback, and also need to do some math. For now, especially with an existing character, just put it somewhere that gives you a comfortable result.

[Kelsey Hall]

Yeah, it's becoming clear that I need to adjust the defaults for the new level calculation. Most of that conversation is http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1129545 on the nGCD v2 release thread, but to summarize: go into the new nGCDCalc.ini and reduce the value of the first setting, nGCD.fLevelFactor. It's a simple multiplier on your level -- e.g. if the 1.0 default gives you level 43, 0.5 should give level 21 (rounding down from 21.5).

The final default will probably be somewhere in the 0.6 to 0.8 range; I'm waiting for some more feedback, and also need to do some math. For now, especially with an existing character, just put it somewhere that gives you a comfortable result.

Ok. I will post in the other thread if I have more questions. Thanks for a quick response!

[Kate Murrell]

I seem to get this error when bashing in Wrye with Birthsigns Expanded... not sure what to say.

Birthsigns Expanded.esp: Unexpected subrecord: SPEL.OBME
Error loading SPEL record and/or subrecord: 00022A63
eid = tejonBSSerpentStarCurse
subrecord = OBME
subrecord size = 32
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\basher.py", line 4958, in Execute
raise
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\basher.py", line 4914, in Execute
patchFile.initData(SubProgress(progress,0,0.1)) #try to speed this up!
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 15182, in initData
patcher.initData(SubProgress(progress,index))
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 19334, in initData
fullNames.readFromMod(srcInfo)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 12568, in readFromMod
modFile.load(True)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 5022, in load
self.tops[label].load(ins,unpack and (topClass != MobBase))
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 4037, in load
self.loadData(ins, ins.tell()+self.size-20)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 4139, in loadData
record = recClass(header,ins,True)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 1810, in __init__
self.__class__.melSet.initRecord(self,header,ins,unpack)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 1438, in initRecord
MreRecord.__init__(record,header,ins,unpack)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 1607, in __init__
if ins: self.load(ins,unpack)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 1670, in load
self.loadData(ins,inPos+self.size)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 1819, in loadData
self.__class__.melSet.loadData(self,ins,endPos)
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 1474, in loadData
raise
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 1462, in loadData
raise ModError(ins.inName,_('Unexpected subrecord: ')+readId)
bosh.ModError: Birthsigns Expanded.esp: Unexpected subrecord: SPEL.OBME

[Kate Norris]

I seem to get this error when bashing in Wrye with Birthsigns Expanded... not sure what to say.

You need to update Bash.

[Luis Longoria]

v290 isnt the latest?

[Jessie Rae Brouillette]

hm u sure its nothign to do with serpentstarcurse? i have wyre bash updated to 290. but when i try to add ur birthsign mod it seems to do that. really decided to use ur TRAP/birthsign combo instead of RBP... urs ALOT more balanced... also using progress and nGCD so thought hell whynot. guess ill keep trying for a while.

[laila hassan]

I seem to get this error when bashing in Wrye with Birthsigns Expanded... not sure what to say.

I recently Bashed Birthsigns Expanded a couple of hours ago in preparation for a new game. It Bashed just fine for me. I'm also using ver. 290.

[Lily]

Not sure, I don't actually use it. But I know that OBME support was added before OBME actually came out, so you shouldn't be seeing those errors with the newest version.

On the other hand, I'm not sure why there are OBME override records in B.E.; I didn't actually use any of its features, so those are empty and can safely be discarded. (Bash appears to be choking on them instead of throwing them away, though.)

[Sheila Reyes]

ahhhh, hm well i just reupdated wryebash again and still get the same result.

isnt a problem related to having other mods, tried just bashing it with the basic oblivion + DLC + patches and same result.

EDIT- should i try downloading OBME?

[how solid]

OBME isn't in the loop while Bash is doing its thing. You could try loading the mod into the CS with OBME_CS.dll removed from your Data\OBSE\Plugins folder, then immediately saving it -- the CS will strip all the OBME records as it loads, which is fine since they're not being used, and immediately re-saving it should give you a "decontaminated" copy of the .esp.

Edit: At least, I think the CS will just strip those records instead of silently ignoring and re-saving them. Sure hope so.

Edit2: Just tried it, file size went down 9k so it looks like that should work.

[Averielle Garcia]

OBME?

[roxanna matoorah]

OBME?

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1116501-relz-oblivion-magic-extender-v10/page__st__40__p__16638993__hl__OBME__fromsearch__1&#entry16638993

[Calum Campbell]

hey thanks tejon, that seems to work... well it actually bashes the patch now but i still get this error. should i be worrying about it? will it give me problems in game later on? seems like TRAP also is using OBME? should I do the same thing for it?


TRAP.esp: Unexpected subrecord: MGEF.OBME
Error loading MGEF record and/or subrecord: 0003A86C
eid = Z002
subrecord = OBME
subrecord size = 48

[LuBiE LoU]

hey tejon i got everything working great now just wanted to ask about editing a script of yours... the bosmer invisibility when sneaking to be exact. im checking out the ScN tejonRaceBosmerTokenScript and I would like to post a REQ in the forum later to alter it a bit but want to make sure its ok with you first. i basically just want to add an additional timer that triggers when the loop checks true to make you invisible but instead creates a timer for say 3 seconds and THEN you turn invis. I attempted it myself but i had to shift around so many conditions and kept confusing which timer i was editing and didnt work lol. Im familiar with the syntax but havent done much scripting for oblivion. i basically just found it somewhat an annoyance to instantly pop invisible every time i crouched to stealth... to me it feels like it should atleast take a few seconds before the invis kicks in is all.

thanks

[Jessica Nash]

seems like TRAP also is using OBME? should I do the same thing for it?

Looks like you've sorted that out, but for the benefit of anyone else who runs into this: yes, if Bash complains about OBME records in TRAP, you can safely strip them using the technique described above. Those records are empty, TRAP uses no OBME features.

I've spoken with JRoush about this and the next version of OBME won't save those records if they're empty.

i basically just want to add an additional timer that triggers when the loop checks true to make you invisible but instead creates a timer for say 3 seconds and THEN you turn invis.

That's another interesting idea. Take a look at the Khajiit night-eye script -- it works more like that, with a timer before the effect. Curious what Elenhil thinks of this idea.

What with all the modding (and, as a result, a usually-unstable installation), I get very little time to play, and I've never really gotten into the stealth game at all. You folks probably have more practical knowledge than I do of the balance on that ability, so don't hold back comments. Here is the lore text which inspired that ability, emphasis mine, from the Pocket Guide to the Empire (First Edition):

For a brief time the Colovian armies used Wood Elf archers, as in the War of Rihad two years past. The Bosmer proved to be too undisciplined and prone to desertion for further use. They would sometimes walk into the shade of a single tree and vanish. Their forest-coupling skills are remarkable. The title of their most famous poem, the Meh Ayleidion, means "The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding."