obviously we are going to see some initial zones the "main citys", the place where the different background char will start, to allow them learn the ropes get some background enjoy the plot and immerse in the game settings (and satisfying the dev's need for a skinner box)

but i'll avoid those as i am more interested in the rest of the areas, the PvP areas, in my opinion the lone wanderer in MMO PvP is not realistic, there is just no way for you to influence the world by few choice dialogue option to determine if VS will be swallowed by NCR or remain natural or who will control reading, when the world is full in thousand of guys with the same dialogue options...

what you can do is, in post apoc world is team up with other guys and make it happen, you'll be the equivalent of the New reno raiders trying to push VC.

so my hopes that PvP area will be divide to zones and made into territorial conquest gameplay, because i find the normal PvP boring, its just like diablo mindless hack& slash.
so what i had in mind, is mutant riden waste, not a hospitable place for the lone wanderer trying to get salvage stuff and secure resources.

so we will have to group and expand our "safe" zone, securing the precious resources around (different metals for crafting etc), securing = starting outpost, that eventually can be upgrade into settlements providing us with caravans, markets, guards, medics and other basic utilities(all of which you'll have to build by investing resources) that normally you would have to travel very far to your initial areas for.

so securing those outpost will, provide you with strategical and economical benefits and another layer of progression outside of the usual equipment and clothing, you'll want to take control of those outpost so you can gain easier excess to crafting resources and thus better equipment from crafters (i hope no supper crafters who can make it all) and less threat from mutants.

and the best part will be of course, the faction wars, because we cant have those VC pricks have that territory are we ?
obviously you could eventually build and deploy defensive structures and there will be some kind of raid events etc...

so any ideas?


p.s. please avoid comments if a. you think its just a wall of text b. if you wan to post OT about full loot/steaking *looking pointedly at gray*

OK. Sketch conception of territory conquest:
1. Main object.
There is a major object in the center of a territory (old plant, bunker, warehouse, etc.). Assault on this object is the last phase. Capturing main facility your faction (clan) captures the territory and starts receiving benefits from it. Battle for main object should take place on the open world map.
2. Secondary objects.
There are various number of smaller objects (security outpost, generator substation, etc.) which capturing enables (or/and making easier) the conquest of main facility. Battles for this objects should be instanced and takes place with a certain scenario (capture/defend, blast/protect, etc.).
3. Conquest phases.
First: declaration. Attacking faction (clan) declares their intention to conquer the territory. The faction must be powerful enough to do it. Only one faction may conquer the territory at once. Time of attack sets to next day.
Second: preparation. Instanced battles for secondary objectives for a certain numbers of players. Attackers have no need to capture all the objectives, but each one making easier to capture the major facility (disabling turrets or something like this).
Third: main aggression. Open-world battle for the main facility. Number of attackers and defenders is unlimited.
Fourth: possession. Successful faction have all benefits of the facility or territory for the next 24 hours. After that time, the object may be attacked again. Excuse my bad English... I am a Russian bear, it's hard to type with claws.

The issue I have with PvP zones, or territory battles, is what do PvE and/or solo players get out of it?
Effectively your suggesting whole areas of the gameworld should be off-limits to them.

Put another way, how about we have PvP zone conflict, but any player (or guild) involved in it can't enter a neutral PvE town/ zone. Would you support that?

Hmmm, I didn't understand you clearly enough. Do you want to allow PvE players to capture territory without PvP? Or you are worry about the unavailability of captured zones for most players? "Captured" is not equal to "restricted". Excuse my bad English... I am a Russian bear, it's hard to type with claws.

its the standard formula the usual PvE areas where we can enjoy the plot get into the story and have some mutant killing fun but eventually you are going to finish it, max out, get bored or just dont want to it, this where instanced PvP comes in.

this is basically an expansion of it, instead of a repetitive the same instances, you get dynamic instances, strategy and consequences.
its not longer some random map its now a fight over your territory the same one you helped to clean of mutants, build and fortify the same one that makes your life more easy around.

ppl who dont want to participate in PvP dont have to travel all the way to the friction areas, they can stay well inside the faction controlled area and enjoy excess to additional resources for crafting and additional "dungeons" cleaning mutant raids...

apart from closer respawn location, i dont see anything they should be receiving from it.
they'll need none combat chars, to get resources crafters etc to see any kind of progression, thing that should take time.


sounds nice but in my opinion its just way to complicated to make and to easily exploitable.


sound good, enough time to avoid endless fight but not enough time to allow them to much fortification.

I guess we'll assume players are faction bound here for territorial conquest.

World PvP objective are very tricky in any MMO. Faction imbalance can render them complete wipes. If 80% of a server sways to BoS, any world PvP object would be a joke.

I hate BGs, but they're really the only way to assure a 'fair' fight.

One option (and one I'm favorable too) would be to increase faction NPC guards/attackers in a world PvP conflict area where one side outnumbers the other. That way, no matter how unbalanced factions become, there will always be a chance for even the lone wanderer to walk into a PvP fight against 100 and stand a chance.

Every faction could have a 'staging ground' in this conflict area where their NPCs spawn from and players can rest and gear up. Maybe even have 'quest' objects that change daily to take out 'x' faction members or secure 'y' tower or gather 'z' resources.

Heck..... I'm excited just thinkin about it.

as always balance is the main issue, since everyone will look up the strongest faction and try to join them...

also there would have to be some balance between PvP/PvE because in my opinion games with to much PvP find them self in the history trash bin of "fps deathmach".

There could be rewards for being in smaller factions that would help keep balance. Perhaps the spread of resources is better per person in a small faction. Being in the biggest faction isn't so great when you have to share that finite resource with 1000 other people.

WoW's Wintergrasp 'world pvp' hasn't faired very well, with one faction dominating on servers where there is a great imbalance of numbers. And its initial incarnation allowed limitless people to join in the conflict - this created massive lag issues (300 players all within visual distance of each other, all giving hundreds of commands to the server, becomes huge mess that I can't see any game solving until communications in general get even faster).

In Cataclysm (the next expansion) the world PvP zone will allow only a limited number of players - the amount the server can cope with - within its boundaries during the 'conflict duration' - everyone else will be forcefully removed. Also, faction size will be roughly matched. If only 10 of Faction A sign up, then a max of 20 Faction B can enter - so that it doesn't become totally unfair and easily dominated by the popular faction.

I would very much like to see world pvp and a fight for resources - but it is certainly a tricky thing to balance.


As for the chap above who complained about PvP zones being 'no-go' area's for PvEers (and hence a waste of developer time), then, well, you can reverse the argument by saying PvE instances are the 'no-go' area for PvPers (and hence a waste of developer time). I am sure the developers will, and must, dedicate time to both PvE and PvP - integrating them where appropriate.

+1
There probably is a high risk for one faction to get the upper hand to easy (but it could be some kind of global quest, take over the wasteland ). So adding NPC guards/attackers to even out the odds should be a viable consideration I think.

But still, maybe the big big factions could group up against another if they would get too strong

so any ideas how to balance this out? there was a few mentions of games which use similar system, how they do it?

I've faced with that problem in the Warhammer. Joining to a Chaos, I was hope that it will be unpopular faction and I will have a lot of PvP. But I haven't consider our russian mentality, over 75% of open-PvP server population was for the Chaos. Our guild leader (we was a top guild) even promulgated an order not to undertake any group or guild-scaled actions against the Order faction. It took place about a month and after that, the Order had gathered enough power to became a challenge.
Why am I telling that? I am trying to say: your fun is in your hands. Excuse my bad English... I am a Russian bear, it's hard to type with claws.

Planetside.

Planetside had (the game is technically still alive but is dead to me after the BFRs) three factions.
However the thing about planetside was that making a character required no leveling process.

So switching from one factions to another, even though u had to start a new character, was no big deal.

The factions with the LEAST number of players would get a percentage benefit that would advanced the character faster.

It worked, but only because the whole game was balanced around that concept.

If a faction, non battleground, pvp system is enacted in this game id suggest NOT tying the faction to the character creation, but allowing us to move our character over to the opposing faction if we feel like it.
That way its only a matter of finding a balanced way to reward the smaller faction, ensuring a self correcting equality.


-Exo