On other topic on this forum, someone wanted to debate me on ZOS's view of the ESO:

" In [Matt] Firor's words, "We're an Elder Scrolls game, first and foremost, and if we deliver the Elder Scrolls experience that gamers are looking for, we'll be fine."

I take this to mean that RP aspects of the game are more important to ZOS then spreadsheets of "normal MMO players."[1] Where is I got this quote from, Mr. Firor was talking about consoles, but the same "big picture out look" can be apply to lack of DPS meters, combat logs and such. I know that single players of TES games must gave up collision detection (CD) to having 200+ chars on the screen at the same time. ESO have a trade off to the lack of CD for single players and MMO players must gave up their DPS meters / combat logs for the default UI. If they really want them, they can use add - on's

Also, the idea of ESO being a TES game 1st, a MMO 2nd can be seen in other aspects of the game also. Dungeons are more story driven, fully voiced, min UI idea, it follows lore. Thus, ZOS never will be interested in silly mounts like pink bunnies and bear riding. (I hope)

How many of you hope for and agree with the idea of "TES 1st, MMO 2nd?"

[1]http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/12/can-elder-scrolls-online-work-on-consoles

MMO 1st, I don't care 2nd, for me. Sorry.

Pretty much every review site said it was MMO first and TES second. I tend to agree. ESO is not very TES at all.

Doesn't mean you can get away with a second rate MMO experience by lacking basic functions. Can try to justify it all you want but bottom line is if this game isn't a good enough MMO it will fail and no amount of "TESness" will save it.

TES 1st MMO 2nd is along the same vague line of "Feels Like"

I mean in what regards? Visual, Sounds, Ambiance then yes. But what about mechanics? Personally I think it "mimics" TES but is MMO. ALthough TES did have specific classes, the freedom was purely of choice. So, not so much TES 1st there.

Post Beta / NDA I finally saw the light. And I am confident to say, that everything isn't comploetely new or unique. THe combing of concepts / mechanics is quite unique. Am very pleased w/ ESO. and have my copy already waiting to log in If you focus too much on ESO or TES then you will lose sight of what is right in front of you.

That's certainly how it SHOULD be, but that's not quite how it is...yet.

Surely MMO 1st and TES 2nd.

DPS meters come as plugins in other mmos as well, but the UI is less intrusive - I'll give them that.

Story driven dungeons are a characteristic of most mmorpgs. As for lore, I don't agree that ESO follows the TES lore. Not when there are level 1 flame atronachs you can one shot in "zone A" and level 15 mudcrabs stronger than these atronachs in "zone D".

I can mention a myriad more reasons and ways that it could be closer to TES while still being an mmorpg (thing which I have done in many other posts).

Hell, some mmorpgs are closer to TES principles than ESO is.

So yes MMO 1st, TES 2nd for sure.

Let's ignore whether or not this is a 'good' game. It most certainly is NOT a TES game first and an MMO second. That's a marketing ploy trying to get the TES people on board. It follows the Wo...I mean mmo recipe almost to the letter. There are however, lots of things that are considered standard for a TES game that are missing.

Like what?

When i swing a two handed sword, i get two handed experience, not global xp that happens to go into two handed weapons. (i will admit, that I'm not 100 percent on this, but I was most certainly getting two handed xp for NOT using two handed weapons, but for quests, exploration, etc)

When I look at the map, I'm able to go ANYWHERE, anytime.

If a cool monster/bandit is wearing cool armor, I can kill it and take that cool armor.

I'm not forced to kill if I don't want to.

I'm not forced to complete quests if I don't want to (obvious escape the dungeon, 5 - 10 mins max)

Really, anything that I usually do in a TES game just isn't the same in TESO. Sure, it 'looks' like a TES game (sort of), but it's just a paint coat. It's an mmo! That's fine though, now that I know what it is, I don't have to expect TES levels of enjoyment.

This is an MMO.

Are you still going on about combat logs and dps meters....

Combat logs are already an add-on, same with personal dps meters.

ZOS will not be adding them into the default UI.

Mmo wolf in ES clothing. And a great MMO it is. It has enough ES flavour to make me very happy.

I know that are trade off because playing with other people, all I am saying that ZOS's main aim to make TES game that one can play with others. One can not just take a single player game like the TES series and slap a multi-player mode in it. It does not work that way. I still think ZOS tried to get the game closes that they can get it to be a TES game, but it must have some MMO trade offs.

I think this is a completely false dichotomy, which admittedly the devs themselves have been instrumental in setting up.

ESO is its own game and needs to be evaluated as such, not by comparison either to other SP games or to other MMOs.

It stands or falls based on whether it's fun to play; the degree to which it's similar or dissimilar to other games is just irrelevant.

Nope, just asking a "big picture" question -- that just a part of the said question, but not the whole question

IMO, RP is irrelevant too btw I don't roleplay in single player games any more than I do in MMOs.

The elements you describe as "RP" elements are just part of good story telling. It's not role playing any more than you roleplay the protagonist when reading a novel or watching a movie.

I agree with you -- ESO is it's own game, thus I will not use a pure single player nor a MMO judge stick to judge it. The question is:

"Did ZOS meet their goal of being more of a TES game then a standard MMO game?"

that's just it, the typical mmo part of it became more important than the tes part. I get it, but I don't have to like it.

A mistake
There is no 1sts and seconds, elder scrolls series always had potential to become good mmo. Remember, elder scrolls series gave us chance to live in an active world in the way we want. Adding players will only make this experiance be better.

All they need to do is world and activity scales so people will be able to immerse into game.

Only thing you need to add to turn elder scrolls into great mmo is depth. And depth as in everything , skill and class system , pvp , pve , crafting , gathering etc.
They have the elements they need, now they just need more of those elements.

then there are those of us who only care for cyrodiil! up the irons!

It's a nice mix of the two. I say equally important.

It's hardly irrelevant since the vast majority of the playerbase are TES fans.

Seriously asking this?

So being just "more TES" than the standard mmo is a success and was their goal? Even if it was a cheap paintjob? (Not saying it's cheap)

From what I have seen ingame, they have made it Tes point of view 1st and mmo 2nd in my opinion.

I can see myself enjoying the story and lore in this game as much as the next tes(which is the most important) AND adding to that the fun(or dismay) of interacting with other players in PvE aswell as PvP.

@http://www.gamesas.com/user/732306-bleak/

I see from your post that you think that ZOS fail to meet their goal of "TES 1st, MMO 2nd?" IMHO, I think ZOS did a very good job combined the two very different POV of the game -- TES fan side and MMO player side. I still thinking that ZOS is focus on making a good TES game, but also have a good MMO aspects to it.

If this was to incorporate more "TESness" Into the game it actually wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion, TES V is by no means a bad game and anyone who is willing to disagree with that are just plain up lying, Maybe it's not within your preference but to deny the fact that Skyrim tells you a compelling story and sets you in a world that makes you feel immersed, You'd be hard stretched to say it didn't. So if this game were to incorporate mechanics from TES into the game even more deeply and rather than focusing on the themepark game but rather a sandbox game where all your actions shape the story I think it may change the dynamic of this game completely, Right now there is choices within the game that does impact how the story progresses but the way these changes happen is very minor and it almost seems just mechanical I don't feel like the choices I'm making is really giving me that rich sense of dynamic storytelling.

Guilds, Yes guilds this is one of the things I feel needed to really be worked on. The choice of being able to choose a guild should impact how other guilds see you, For instance if I were to join the fighters guild I should get disposition with the Mages guild or another rivaling guild eg. blackwood company(Please add them) they don't want to limit the player character I get that but how you do that is you make it so each individual guild in ESO has a compelling storyline to tell us don't just make it some mechanical thing where we pick up a quest and then just hand it in, Give us something like a bounty hunter billboard for fighter guilds so we can hunt down marked bosses in the wilderness, Because my experience in TES V was just completing the guild quests if you rushed through the Skyrim storyline you were done with the game very quickly but hardly anyone I know did that they either went off to the Dark Brotherhood first or the Companions some even went for the Mages Guild, Just my thoughts.