Just like every other thread created by this guy. Internet stealth-trolling 101.

The plots in Daggerfall's factions weren't that bad. Far from it. The whole Lysander ghost stuff revealed a nice powerplay in the region.

Daggerfall's factions didn't have plots and the landscape/lore, especially the landscape, were nothing impressive while Oblivion's, which were more detailed, were some lacking pile of bland guar dung according to the OP. The OP praises this stuff from Daggerfall then goes on to say Oblivion's landscape is bland, it's lore lacking, and it's factions lacking. He/she has either never played Daggerfall or is just looking for an excuse to pick on Oblivion. He/she's praising Daggerfall and picking on Oblivion for the things Oblivion does much better than Daggerfall and he/she is forgetting to praise the things that Daggerfall actually did better than Oblivion. The Lysandus-related stuff is cool, in my opinion, but the actual joinable factions have nothing to do with it.

He/She is just trying to get a reaction out of the community to keep his/her thread at the top of the forums...

Really though, simplicity is too much of a vague word in this context to truly measure. A better term is BGS is refining and better focusing with each new TES installment.

Yah, its true, other posts by this guy have been the same style. Morrowind was better, we need to be able to have 96 armor slots, moar skillz, everything is dumbed down, this is stupid, I want more Morrowind, is all Ive ever gotten from this guys posts. Seriosly if you think it is going to svck and turn into a crappy generic crap fantasy game then do not buy it.

I have not read his other threads but if they are all like this and you all have read them why do you not report him?

It worked.

Based on my past experiences with Bethesda games, I expect it to be different in some way and definitely worth the pre-order because of the change, not in spite of it. So I agree that the better term would be refining.

Daggerfall was randomny generated landscape in 96. Ofcourse it wouldn't be something impressive, especially by todays standards, but it was fine back then. Plus, most places in the world really aren't that impressive, and Daggerfall was going for the "live in a world" feeling. It did that quite well. For it's time (and even beyond it if one gets over the graphics), it was a very very good game, with a lot of effort in it. There's no need to bash it in order to defend Oblivion.

You use factions as in knights and temples where you got quests and ranks. I use it as in kingdoms etc There was plenty of politics/plots involved in the kingdoms

I am about to post something he said to show how dumn he is. NOTE I DID NOT TYP THIS AND IT IS NOT MY OPINION!




""""'pointless flame removed


we want individual armour plates. every single piece that makes up a suit of armour must be included. morrowinds armour was way to limited. i want chestplates, backplates, shirts, the leather that goes under plates but over cloths, individual boots that are seperate from greaves. those cool poncho/rag things that go around the neck and chest. socks and underwear, skirts, armoured skirts etc


morrowind had the most desirable system, although i would like a few more pieces


this enchantment balancing thing that people want so much can be balenced without removing pieces"""""



Not that I do not want options but this is over the top.

Well, to be fair the OP has a point.

Its not uncommon for things to start out with its own unique flavour, and then when it becomes popular, it gets adapted to appeal even more, and somewhere along the way that very thing wich made it unique is lost.

But I think its too early to tell if Skyrim means TES is going down that road.
Ill wait until Ive played it.

Well there are so many other members that sound just like him. I'm not willing to throw Jack under the bus for walking the fine line between reasonable pessimism and troll.

There is not much to report. I would guess this person is young, under 18 and perhaps younger and just has a poor way of opening discussions or presenting factual information. The thread is essentially an opinion debate, and what makes it worse is the fact its in a forum filled with fans for the Elder Scrolls and this person has a negative view of most of the new installments.

A word of advice - do not attack members personally. Constructively destruct the OP but keep it civil.

Every one has their own opinions about the past games in the ES series, that is all they are, opinions. Keep this topic tidy guys if you want to be here over the weekend to discuss the game some more.

Poned.

Not simplification, not even as your opinion. Factually wrong to say its simplification.

Yah..............dang I think that I am geting off this one thread. I like Rohugh but I am not pressing him.

That's all good and dandy but Daggerfall's landscape was being compared to Oblivion's in a clearly false light. Daggerfall's was no more unique, but rather the opposite. Even for its time, Bethesda promised a bunch of stuff that never even remotely made it into the game. For its time, its main quest was unfinishable due to a bug, and for its time, the game wasn't enough to stop Bethesda from going down a path of near-bankruptcy. In the end, I would blame that specifically on the spin-offs, but for its time, Daggerfall was a buggy mess and in comparison to Oblivion, which the OP so thoughtfully brought up, its landscapes were certainly not more unique or interesting, its factions are certainly not more unique, and its lore is certainly not greater in number. The skills the OP so gladly defends lacked use at all, in the case of language skills, or were too segmented to even be worth taking as skills, in the case of the speech and athletics skills. The truth about the relationship between Elder Scrolls games is not one of simplification. If I need to bash Daggerfall to make my point, then I will. Where I do think Daggerfall's strengths lie are in a completely different place from where Oblivion's lie, but if the goal of this thread is to prove that TES series has become more simplified and needs to go back to Daggerfall-style, then the OP is suggesting financial ruin for Bethesda.

You can't compare the landscapes of two games that are 15 years apart. For its time, Daggerfall aimed higher than any other game. Yea it didn't get right to the target, but it ended very high. And the fact that Bethesda released a couple of games after it means it can't really be the one responsible for its financial ruin.. Oblivion didn't aim higher for its time. Gothics had the stuff Oblivion was marketing (radiant AI, engaging combat etc) in the time of Morrowind.

I'm not advocating anyone to go back to Daggerfall. But since you don't like Oblivion being bashed, don't bash other games that people like as much.

PS Oblivion is up there with Daggerfall for me in hours played. I love that game. It's obvious from my first response that I don't agree with the OP's views on Oblivion.

As long as beth/Todd thinks the only way to go forward is to reduce

I think society is slowly getting more stupid (but that's a whole other issue). So I think they make their games easier on purpose to appeal to the ADD 12 year olds that can't stay focused and don't want to think about anything. That's why now they have mapmakers and compasses to tell you where to go and level scaling. That is my opinion anyway.
I'm not saying Oblivion was bad but I much preferred Morrowind.

You are saying oblivion is bad, actually.

There is a difference between dumbed-down and fast-paced/concentrated. D&D is very complex and deep, but it doesn't take a neurologist to play it. Oblivion is more or less streamlined, I think its still very deep, but it's not all thrown at you at once.

Oblivion is only simple on the surface. Morrowind was a little less simple, but still accessible. Skyrim will be simple on the surface too. That's the beauty of Oblivion and the direction The Elder Scrolls is heading. Someone new to the series can come in and get comfortable right away, and we can come in and read between the lines and see the reasons behind what is happening and learn the new lore and how it interacts with the old lore.

Maybe you naysayers should rewatch the Todd Howard interviews (or watch them for the first time.) I had my doubts too, but those interviews totally put my mind at ease. I have faith that Bethesda knows what they're doing. It will be like previous games. Fun for those who just want to stop by and have a good time, and fun for those who want to dig in deep and learn everything about the ES universe. I think the mere fact that they're giving us a dragon language to learn and decipher is proof of that.

I take offense to that. I have ADHD and enjoyed complex games when I was twelve.

Theres a difference between "ridiculously easy" and being very good at the game. I still find oblivion challenging on the default difficulty. Go play the first Ninja Gaiden and then you will know true frustration.

Heh, looks like he edited that out.



Morrowind had fewer skills than Daggerfall, and Oblivion had even fewer skills, but Oblivion did not start the "few skills" trend as you seem to suggest.

Oblivion removed "cool stuff?" You must have been really looking for bad things to say about it...

Oblivion had a "low amount of lore?" Normally Seti would have gone insane on your for saying that, and would have listed a bajillion different examples of how much lore there is in Oblivion, but that fact that he didn't really, really shows how silly your argument is. He doesn't even find it worth his time.

Oblivion had a "generic and illogical plot?" You saved the world in Morrowind and you saved the world in Oblivion, and neither plots were "illogical." Morrowind's might have been more complex but that doesn't make Oblivion's generic.

I could go on... point is you're really trying too hard to find things to whine and moan about, and this forum has enough unwarranted pessimism as it is. If you don't have faith that Bethesda did what they did in Skyrim for a reason, then what are you still doing here?