Morrowind's quest was "epic by proxy." You were walking in the shadows of past events and already-established storylines that were far greater than you. Todd Howard somewhere once described Morrowind's MQ as "Tell me" and Oblivion's MQ as "Show me." The problem with the "show me" philosophy is that it is severely limited by the medium of gaming; the Battle of Bruma is a good example of that.

Further, Morrowind did not jump over backwards to try to impress upon you the sense of "epic." Though the MQ of Morrowind has far-reaching effects in hindsight, during the event, the player was really tackling an isolated and localized threat before it got way out of hand. The severity of the situation can be inferred by the player or discovered through digging into the world a little, but its MQ is not force-feeding it to you at every given opportunity.

Contrasted to Oblivion, where you know right from the word "go" that this whole MQ is SRS BZNSS because the whole world could potentially end if you don't jump through every single hoop. At every given opportunity, the MQ feels the need to remind you how epically serious this all is, how dire the situation is, etc, etc.

Bethesda's problem is that they drastically over-compensated and "shot for" making an "epic" MQ. If you work too hard at making an epic storyline, it will fail. If you instead just write your storyline without trying to reinforce its epic status every hour, it will reach epic by its own right. That's why I don't want Bethesda to "shoot for epic."


See above.

TES4 felt scaled down. Dont get me wrong, the game was HUGE, I just mean it only taking like 3 minutes to walk from one side of Cyrodil to the othero.[quote name='Aesus' date='Dec 7 2009, 09:26 PM' post='15398809']
how the hell did you walk? i do recall running from one edge to the other in about 3 hours.

Yeah, you basically covered it. I was so taken in by the MQ in Morrowind. At first, I thought they were boring fetching missions, but each piece built up to a legacy that was so grand, and that my character only added onto. In Oblivion, you ARE the story. However in Morrowind, you're but a piece, and to truly appreciate it, you must go back and look at what occured to even make you significant.

I liked that. Another thing I liked was how you spent the main quest doing mission to gain fame and establish yourself as the Nereverine, while in Oblivion the main quest was you going around doing errands so that another person (Martin) could be the hero. Ehh, didn't like that so much, but wasn't haunted by it.

I think they could improve on just little details for darkness too. Now, I'm not one of those that thinks that people's head need to explode in a gory mess when I hit them with a sword or that their limbs should be chopped off follows by gallons of blood spewing out, cause that's a little ridiculous. But in Kvatch, daedra came and wiped out the city but where are the bodies? Where are the single stranded survivors hiding in the dark clutching children's toys or or piece of their wife's dress? It makes me think of the forties, how scientists would build fake cities and test bombs on them to see how much destruction they could cause. Kvatch showed how much physical damage the daedra could cause but it didn't show the devastation. Oblivion would have moved me much more if I had seen a devastated city in Kvatch. As it was, I didn't much care.

All the dead bodies were eaten by Everscamps, man I hated those anoying little buggers. Good for leveling up ur weapon skills though.

small thing..but if i were to put a helmet on in Oblivion (probably happened in MW too, haven't played that for a while) my hair would suddently disappear. this just looked rediculous, even more so with hoods. this is small, but i noticed it every time i opened the character screen.

- If you kill a person/entire family that own a house. after several game days, the house would be for sale. you could buy the house, but if you waited too long another/new NPC will buy it and live there.

- the player can use the services of the guilds without being a member. like, you can hire bodyguards from the fighters guild to accompany you for a number of days. they will fight beside you as long as it is not illegal (killing NPC's/attacking guards). the higher the level/rank of the fighters guild bodyguard the more expensive they'll cost. and you can hire more than 1 bodyguards at a time. So if you're rich, you don't have to do the fighting yourself. just hire an army of bodyguards.
Or you can hire the thieves guild to steal for you, and the dark brotherhood to kill for you.

- the arena should better. much better.

Realistic conversation, I don't like walking up to somebody shouting "Rumors!" at them and getting them to give a little speech about something. When being given quests i dislike simply being told what to do, i would prefer it if you could respond by saying "what kind of opposition will i be facing?" and get given a bit more detail or being told to shut up and just follow orders for example.

I would also like two Co-op modes. Drop in, for ease and simplicity. And story, where my character and the characters of my friends can progress through the story at the same time, i think it would add to the immersion having living friends rather than companions from mods.

I asked about this before and got a link to a lore page about it, here's how it works:

Argonians can only mix with Argonians
Khajiits can only mix with Khajiits
Nords, Elves, Imperials, Bretons, Orcs and Redguards can all mix but the offspring will retain most of the mothers attributes and race. An example of a hybrid would be the Gray Prince from Oblivion, he was an Orc like his mother but was also a small part vampire.

I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of Back story to my Character in TES 5, I heard DOA did back stories well. Here are some I've thought of.

Argonian: Father was a Shadowscale and mother was a thief=increased points to Sneak, Lockpicking and either daggers or Archery
Khajiit: Born a beggar, Family were killed of disease but you survived. Made a slave and sent to fight in the Arena but became free after winning lots of Matches: Increased resistance to disease, speech craft/sneak, blade/blunt/marksmen/hand to hand

these are two ideas I came up with, you should be able to make your character and make choices on how your background effected your character. The Argonian only had increased sneak, lock picking and some sort f weapon because the mother and father had professions in that area. The Khajiit had increased disease because he/she survived the disease that killed his/her family, increased speech craft or sneak because he/she must have learn't how to get money as a beggar and an increased area of fighting because he/she was in the Arena.

Maybe after choosing the choices of your background you do a quest that lets you end up where you start, the Argonians family could have been killed by the legion or betrayed by the Dark Brotherhood and he/she has to get revenge. The Khajiit could try and escape the Arena with help from other Gladiators or not. Your choices should help determine how a lot of things happen in TES 5, whether its a quest line or character creation it should be there so every play through is different and unique.

While Dragon Age's origins stories were very cool, it was a staple of their game. The mechanics of the game itself had to do with what origin you were, and that took alot of time and resource. That was okay, though, because it was one of the key components of their game.

If TES:V had it, not only would it be stealing the main ideas from another successful RPG, it would take serious time to develop as well as ruining part of the TES experience: being freed as a prisoner with no background other than what you yourself come up with.

I'm in jail for whatever reason I want, not because my character's background was restricted to that.

Just one thing about people wanting a "EPIC game", epic can end in "epic failure".
I'd rater have it less epic but DEEP, a world i can really FEEL into.

1. Repeatable quests, either stand alone or part of a guild. Like once a week check in with so & so to eliminate a bandit boss in a cave or marauders on the road.

2. Have a random npc name generator, every bandit, smuggler, and npc in game even ones that respawn. I remember morrowind how every single npc in game had a name but when you killed them they were gone forever.

3. Some more random excitement, if a bar fight or street fight occur its not going to depopulate half your town because when a named npc dies he or she respawns in a few days with a new name sort of filling in for the one that died.

4. Keeping along these lines you can beef up the radiant Ai so a thieves guild member will have very low responsibility and will randomly steal from houses or people, once a week a dark brother hood member can try to murder some one, getting caught in either case causes guards and people to attack them.

5. More populated citys, more travelers on the roads, more adventures other then your self wandering around.

6. A little more variety of mundane items that fill up houses and exteriors.

7. Restrooms in some homes and buildings (if a city has a sewer system like many tes citys do). Just for ambiance no not to actually use, just want to clarify this to the ignorant folks. They put restrooms in Fallout 3 no one raised a stink about that so do the same for this game.

8. Now for some personal preferences to lore content, id like to see some dwemer ruines or even dwemer. Dwemer ruins were the most enjoyable places to explore in any tes game for me.

9. More voice actors the 6 you have for every race you been using since morrowind is getting a little old, not a big complaint though.

10. Have a few npcs loafing around in a bar that will accompany you on your adventures if they like you enough.

11. Dont destroy a house or city and leave it burning for eternity, have it so it can be rebuilt again in stages.

I want to feel that my character actually has some significance in the game world, I don't want to be the guy that has to fix everything then once I finish people give me the odd thanks every now and then but still charge me for some service.
RPGs should be really immersive and should always be a very unique partly unrealistic world.



What I'm trying to get at is TES 5 should be another type of world, a new experience with its dark parts and bright parts; and by dark I actually mean dark Bethesda

In real time, not game time.

Where is this statue of you everyone talks about?
You look just like your statue and the fact you mean nothing you just saved Tamriel from utter chaos but the Arena acts like you have never even fought a rat.

there should be alternate beginnings. i rp as myself and im not a criminal

my excuse for morrowind was i accidently hit a guard while practacing with my blade and the emporer sent me to morrowind. then after that i got arrested for attempting to sleep on a bed that wasnt mine and they got fed up with me doing that 24/7 so they sent me back to cyrodiil. so i have to act like im a criminal

Epic implies an experience where you feel like a hero, where you feel like you're doing something, and the battles are creative and immersive.

And still so often results in epic fail. Mostly because it's often so over the top it feel cheezy.

GUILDS:

Magical: You can only join one. You will get access to special spell affects through these, and there is no way to join all of them.

Synod:
Donations: Like imperial cult donations in Morrowind, except you can, depending on your personality, get donations from anybody. They range from Gold (Which you keep a share of) To powerful weopons (Which you keep altogether). Focus on personality.
Battle: Do the the dirty work of the divines. Focus on Conjuration and Destruction
Espionage: Spy on other Religius Orders. Focus on Illusion and stealth
Priest Work: You have to deal with curses, reversing magic, and healing. Focus on Restoration

Collage of Whispers:
Alteration/Mysticism: Getting Magical Artifacts.
Illusion: Dealing with situations In which it would hurt the collage to physically attack.
Restoration: You have to deal with curses, reversing magic, and healing.
Conjuration: Dealing with the realms of Oblivion, as well as learning how to conjure items from other parts of the game-world.
Destruction: Battle Mage work basicly. clearing out mines, protecting caravans, etc.
Necromancy: Reviving the dead to either acompany you to battle or to guard a certain area. always permanent (Unless you kill them again.) Highest Level ability is actual resurrection: you can talk and buy stuff from then again)
Research: Working as a lackey to people in the collage. You can get very powerful spells and rewards through this.

Mages guild:
Deskwork: Basically like research in the Collage of Whispers.
fieldwork: Assasination, bribing, and political moves to re-secure a place for the mages guild in the 4th Era.
Knights of the Lamp: guarding non-violent mages from attack.

Witch Covens:
Gather artifacts.
Raid settlements.
Brew very powerful special potions.

PHYSICAL: Can only join one, besides for The Penitus Oclous and Imperial Legion.

Fighters Guild:
Guard Duty: Guard X person/object for Y amount of time.
Battle: A mercenary army basicly
Saftey: Clear out Mines etc.
Improvement: Secure a place for the guild in the fourth Era

Imperial Legion:
Saftey: Clear out Mines etc.
Guard Duty: Guard X person/object for Y amount of time.
Soldier: Get towns and villages to pay their taxes, and take it if necessary.
Artifact Hunt: Search for the weapons and mail of old.
Training: Get payed to train people through experience (For example, bring a weak underling to clear out an abandoned fortress, and make sure they survive.)

Penitus Oculous:
Political Assasinations: What it sounds like.
Interigation: Also what it sounds like.
soldier: Force towns and settlements to accept Titu Mede.
Detective work: Get to the bottom of crimes.

Local Police:
Guard Duty: Guard X area for Y time.
Detective Work: Figure out who done what.
Taxes: Make individual people pay taxes.

STEALTHY: You can only join one thief one and one murder one.

Thieves Guild:
Theft: planned theft
Freelance Work: Pay beggars to, in two days time, tell you a person's exact schedule. I wonder how this would be useful to a thief...
Fox's orders: Do what your Doyens tell you (Thieves Guild Main Quest)

Local gangs:
Freelance Work: Pay beggars to, in two days time, tell you a person's exact schedule. I wonder how this would be useful to a thief...
orders: Do what your Boss tell you (Gang Main Quest)

Dark Brotherhood:
Assasination: Assasination.
Invoking: Summon these services to assassinate any NPC. Doesn't always work.
Experiments: collect bodies of victims for use b the mages of Sithis
Orders: Non-assasinations that fit the guild.

Morag tong
Assasination: Assasination.
Invoking: Summon these services to assassinate any NPC. Doesn't always work.
Orders: Non-assasinations that fit the guild.

OTHER: these just didn't fit.

Imperial Cult: Same as Morrowind.

Daedric Cults: depends on Daedra in question. (Hircine would have you hunt animals and kill Hunter who weren't hounorable, as well as make Werewolfs do what they are supposed to; while Molag Bal would have you corrupt goverment officials, sieze power, and litterally [censored] but not on screen

Arena:
One on one: Fight a single opponent.
Team Vs: Your Team Vs. Another Team.
Team Free For All: Your team in a free for all against all the other teams.
Free For all: You vs. a single representative from each other team. they fight each other too though.
Vs. Animal: Fight a creature.
Spread Word: Set up posters and talk to people about watching and betting on the Arena.
New opponents: Go to famed warriors and convince them to join the Arena.
Bet: Same as Oblivion
Collect Bets: collect bets, but money goes in/out of your own pocket. you can refuse to accept a bet.
Spectate: Just watch for a small fee.

Vampire Clans:
Fight another Vampire clan.
Get rid of a Vampire Hunter.
Secure more cattle.
Spread the Disease.
Find a cure.

Please developers, if you are building the world in just one province, don't base it in skyrim, we've all seen what skyrim is like. Try for something different, somewhere we haven't seen before. If TESV is in skyrim I will not buy this game until it is a second hand copy, otherwise I'm happy to pay full price.

Stephen.

^ That's not true. You say that now until you see the vibrant beauty that they will make Skyrim. That being said, I still hope it's in the Summerset Isles. Or Sumurset, whatever they call it now.

Yeah that was smart telling them ur name and all.

Absolutely. When one tries to be epic it can easily fall so short of epic that it's cheesey and ludicrous looking. The Bruma battle that was LAUGHABLY imitating Braveheart for instance. Sean Bean walking up and down the thin rank of a dozen or so soldiers mustered to take on a hoard of demons, giving this speech to pysch them up. It's just pure corn.

This one man's opinion is that single player RPG's should be scaled down to a slightly more personal level. When you have an ex-prisoner inside the space of a few weeks atop the echelon of power and influence, the right hand man of the prince who is to save the world, (cue dramatic orchestral score). It's just over the top.

The story of Morrowind was epic and understated simultaneously. You were saving many people but it felt more behind the scene. Almost like you were doing this great thing but without the knowledge of many people you were doing it for. Maybe what we want is epic storyline, and memorable moments on a personal level, but not forced down our throats in a cheese-factor 9, corn-fest .

That topic is not allowed. You can't even help out people who are whining about their DVD getting worn in use, without getting a warning.

As I said once to a moderator, I'm a good honest person. I may not be the most likable person but at least I tell the truth. And, graphics is not why I play a game, it is the gameplay. I'd be happy to play TESV if it looked like Morrowind, (I wouldn't go so far back as Daggerfall graphics), as long as the gameplay was much improved from their recent effort on Oblivion. It would mean a much bigger world, take out half the memory that was used for graphics in Oblivion and you'd have half a disk full of quests and towns and gameplay.

Stephen.